I'm beginning to think it isn't worth it

[_CaliforniaKid]

Frankly, I'm getting sick of message board debates. Is it really that difficult to communicate without the snideness, the sniping, the disrespect, the personal attacks? It can get bad here, but MADB is the worst. It's just a great big mutual admiration society, a dogpile of people who think they know more than they really do and think you're stupid for disagreeing. I love the community here at MDB, and I love all you folks and your fun and entertaining personalities, but I'm really gonna have to cut back on the debating aspect of the boards. It leaves me mentally and emotionally exhausted, and tremendously frustrated at the utter lack of progress, respect, and understanding. Bleh.

[_Dwight Frye]

I hear ya, Chris. You've pretty much summed up exactly why this Dwight Frye account stays in lurker mode most of the time.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Chris,

Yeah it can get pretty bad.

My advice, (smile) IGNORE button!



I know it doesn't help with a debate if you want to engage a mean-spirited apologists but at least one can participate on the MB without all the nastiness.

I sometimes wonder if the nastiness on the MAD board isn't there to keep thoughtful and knowledgeable people like you away.

~td~

[_solomarineris]

Frankly, I'm getting sick of message board debates. Is it really that difficult to communicate without the snideness, the sniping, the disrespect, the personal attacks? It can get bad here, but MADB is the worst. It's just a great big mutual admiration society, a dogpile of people who think they know more than they really do and think you're stupid for disagreeing. I love the community here at MDB, and I love all you folks and your fun and entertaining personalities, but I'm really gonna have to cut back on the debating aspect of the boards. It leaves me mentally and emotionally exhausted, and tremendously frustrated at the utter lack of progress, respect, and understanding. Bleh.

Dude,
I asked you the very same question last night, when you responded William Shrywer's post about Book of Abraham.
You sounded like you took guy's assertions seriously enough to research.
Look, I cannot judge for others but to me you come across a rational guy, who knows his stuff, of course you will have adversaries, they will defend the dumbest inventions of Joseph Smith with their lives.
There's absolutely nothing wrong in saying; whatever Joseph Smith produced as scripture was utter garbage and Book of Abraham is the Crown in the Jewel.
Do you see any mainstream Anthropologist taking time to research these fallacies?
I don't mean any disrespect to Mormon or Bible scholar when I say these scriptures are nothing but fiction, they are tales, myths from our past because they cannot prove any assertion their scriptures boldly claims.
I see you as a guy who did his homework, you make sense.

[_Pokatator]

Hey CalKid

Both TD and solo are right. They want to piss you off. You are very simplistically striking nerves over there. This is when the strike back the hardest.

I want to thank you and Kevin for making this issue so simplistic for me. I am truly interested but I am not a scholar and if I only get one side I do get confused. This is what they want for me and for the Mormon rank and file, confusion.

You have helped me to understand immensely don't give up, please.

Pok

PS If you can make it simple for me to understand, that means the Mormon rank and file can understand it, that is what scares them.

[_Inconceivable]

CK,

I guess it's odd, but I don't think I even have an account at the self admiration society board.

When I hear about what they're up to there from you guys, it reminds me of what people say about a movie that's not worth spending my money on.

I like the option here where I can call out a poser or quote lame portions of the temple endowment even if it gets cast down to a more vile kingdom.

Mad is like having just one heaven, which would certainly be hell to me. I don't think even their God approves of it.

3 kingdoms kinda makes sense.....%#$. Maybe the church is true. Oh crap, I'm starting to feel sick.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Don't be discouraged, Chris. Take a break if you need one, or stop dealing with the issue entirely if it would give you the most peace of mind. Also, you were posting so late into the night! You probably need a good night's rest and some cookies, too. I really ought to mail you some!

Hoping your day is great,

Kimberly

[_Some Schmo]

I've been anti-debate for several years (long before I ever participated in message boards). It's a rare individual that is open-minded enough to actually be convinced in a debate. The parties almost invariably enter the debate with an agenda, and nothing else matters. They're like guns, designed to fire bullets but not designed to take them from other guns.

Whenever I notice myself slipping into a sort of debate with someone, I immediately back off. It's just so pointless. I have no problem letting the other person think they've won because they're going to come away from it thinking that anyway, so who gives a crap?

And it's even worse on message boards, the wild wild west of the debating frontier. I can hardly think of anything more pointless than debating on a message board with people who think they know it all and are fearless sitting in the comfort of their private computer room (as Roger Waters once sang, "Oh, the bravery of being out of range").

So for me, it's so much more fun to just point out their BS and be on your way. That's why I'm all about observational commentary and try to avoid arguing like the plague.

[_dblagent007]

Discussion of opposing views in religion and politics almost always ends up in name calling match.

I can sympathize with you about your treatment on the pundits thread. Some there have used a very condescending tone when making their arguments.

At this point, I am not sure who is right about the length of the Hor scroll. However, it would be nice to have a polite debate about it.

[_Kevin Graham]

Frankly, I'm getting sick of message board debates. Is it really that difficult to communicate without the snideness, the sniping, the disrespect, the personal attacks? It can get bad here, but MADB is the worst. It's just a great big mutual admiration society, a dogpile of people who think they know more than they really do and think you're stupid for disagreeing.

I spent most of my forum participation as an LDS apologist (1997-2004), so I know it is more than that. It isn't that they think they are smarter than you, its just that they believe they are on God's side and you are an enemy anti-Mormon. Therefore, they have to win at all costs. It is a spiritual battle in their minds, one they can't afford to lose.

I love the community here at MDB, and I love all you folks and your fun and entertaining personalities, but I'm really gonna have to cut back on the debating aspect of the boards.

It can be just as bad here as it is over there, the main difference is that the mods here don't take sides. I've made enemies on both forums for simply expressing an unpopular view. For example, if you had decided to step up to the plate and defend theism on this forum, I have no doubt that you'd be on the receiving end of contempt and ridicule the same as I have been.

It leaves me mentally and emotionally exhausted, and tremendously frustrated at the utter lack of progress, respect, and understanding. Bleh.

Well, it is silly to expect progress, really. You mainly speak on Book of Abraham issues. Now do any of us here really expect folks at MADB to realize, via debate, that the Book of Abraham is a hoax and that this means Joseph Smith was a fraud, and therefore the Church isn't all that it claims to be? I was the exception, but it involved much more than simple debate.

This is why I've kinda stopped posting on the Book of Abraham since I was banned from MADB (aside from responses to Schryver). The debate is dead in the water when the two scholars from both sides refuse to engage. The best thing to do at this point is to wait for either side to publish something worth critiquing.

I also want to express my appreciation for you CK. If it weren't for you, I might be divorced by now. I am a married man with kids and I was spending way too much time on this topic a few years ago. I was banned from MADB the week my son was born in August 2006, and I remember my wife getting on my case because I was always trying to find an internet café so I could respond to the latest wave of attacks on my character.

Afterwards, I was always trying to hit the library to research Nibley/Hauglid claims. I never could put in the time required, and then you came along and started pumping out one informed response after another. You've done a great job, just keep up the good work.