Westridge & Other Schools(Formerly LDS Perceptions thread)

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_truth dancer
_Emeritus
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Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _truth dancer »

Hi Harmony,

I'm wondering why I'm not seeing anyone else here focusing on the behavior of the 15 year old?


For me, I'm not focusing on this because the behavior of children in these facilities is irrelevant to my opinion of institutions; I do not think sending a child away from their home for years on end for "soft to moderate" behavioral problems is a good solution, or appropriate, especially knowing some of the practices and techniques used at this particular facility.

According the the website, they are supposedly "treating" things like depression, bereavement, anxiety, etc. etc. Taking children away from their families and placing them in these sorts of facilities is just craziness in my opinion.

Now, I get that teenagers can be difficult and I get that parents get frustrated but in my opinion these sorts of facilities are not the answer.

Having said this, I do agree that there are children who "learn the system" of these institution and can survive better than others. It is no doubt true that if GoodK "played the game" he would have been better off in some respects, still I don't think institutions and this form of "treatment" are the way to go.

~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_Pokatator
_Emeritus
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Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _Pokatator »

Pokatator wrote:Crock quit crying. We've had numerous threads about you harping on being open and un-anonymous. Facebook is free game, wide open to the world, you're the one exposing your wife to the internet world, not anyone else. I have said it before and you can't seem to get it..... any "good" attorney would advice his/her client to remain anonymous on message boards and not to post anything on Facebook/myspace that you don't want the world to use. And that means use for good or bad. It's beyond easy to capture a photo off those sites.

You admit, "I don't know enough of Facebook to figure out how he got it", then get a brain and then a "good" attorney and some good advice, but shut up about it!


Crock wrote:I asked politely. My wife does not consent.

And I believe that a poster can decide to post with his real name, and that such a decision does not grant a license to expose the personal details and the images of other persons.

But, this Board obviously has a double standard when it comes to defenders of the faith -- anything goes to embarrass and humiliate, so I've made my request and really don't expect much.


Crock, I am not condoning Goodk's behavior nor do I believe it is the right thing for him to do but by the same standard I don't condone your own stupidity about this matter. You are asking for it and next time it maybe some with a lot less honorable motives than Goodk.

I object to you harping on your bandwagon of openness and condemning everyone who remains anonymous. You are being hypocritical. I totally believe that you being an attorney and being no smarter than your behavior on the internet you shouldn't be on the internet. Furthermore, if you advised a client to behave like you have on the internet they have an idiot for an attorney. And I am sure you are representing yourself.

I believe the avatar should come down to protect your wife from you and your stupidity.
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
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_GoodK

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _GoodK »

Hi TD,

truth dancer wrote:
So, besides the various organizations proclaiming they are helping, and their marketing department's effective sales pitches (for licensing and parents), where is the actual documentation that they are helping? Is there any? What research (if any) are these facilities using to show they are actually improving the lives of these children? Or is the state just going with the claims of the institutions?


It seems to me the only "research" is from the actual orgs that promote their services.


I agree with you. Most, if not all, information that is publicly available about places like the Mormon Gulag are provided by organizations that promote these types of facilities -- like NATSAP.

Most of these organizations are simply there to provide a marketing service for facilities, and have no regard for the type of facility they are promoting.

Another obstacle Internet researches encounter is cost. Even simple court records are priced beyond what some interested parties are willing to pay. NAPHS charges $400 for for their annual survey!

I've been asked to speak at a couple of different conferences that CAFETY is attending, like the AACRC and registration alone costs upwards of $500.

What people should remember is that these privately owned and operated facilities bare no resemblance at all to anything that the state has its hand in. They make their own rules. They report to stake-holders. They have to turn a profit. It's literally a billion dollar a year industry.

Do you know of any long term research supporting or undermining these sorts of institutions? (I'm not talking about your run of the mill behavioral approach, or adult inmates, I'm thinking more of the specifics of the institutions).


I'm not sure much research is being done, unfortunately. The court is hearing more and more cases involving these facilities. Here is the latest:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 82,00.html

I do believe all these sorts of facilities will eventually be shut down, the sooner the better in my opinion!


I agree. Many are being shut down. Everything else aside, this is really an industry that needs to be regulated heavily by the government.

Also, I'm guessing you are familiar with CAICA (Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse)


I am, although for some reason CAICA and CAFETY don't like each other, which kind of puts me in an awkward situation. I was asked very early on by the CAFETY president not to link to CAICA. I never really cared to find out why, but maybe I should.
Last edited by _GoodK on Mon May 11, 2009 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_rcrocket

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _rcrocket »

Pokatator wrote:I object to you harping on your bandwagon of openness and condemning everyone who remains anonymous. You are being hypocritical. I totally believe that you being an attorney and being no smarter than your behavior on the internet you shouldn't be on the internet. Furthermore, if you advised a client to behave like you have on the internet they have an idiot for an attorney. And I am sure you are representing yourself.

I believe the avatar should come down to protect your wife from you and your stupidity.


Oh well. I like you and think you are a nice guy. I certainly could be a better lawyer.
_Dr. Shades
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Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _Dr. Shades »

rcrocket wrote:But, this Board obviously has a double standard when it comes to defenders of the faith -- anything goes to embarrass and humiliate, so I've made my request and really don't expect much.

You mean, like your numerous attempts to embarrass and humiliate by posting faux-moderator notes?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_GoodK

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _GoodK »

Guess what, marg: there's nothing in the public record about a lawsuit brought against that boys' ranch by GoodK.


It's cute to see you try so hard, but no, I'm still not posting my lawyer's name here - because you want me to - so Bob can stalk and harass him as well. Sorry. I'm also not going to tell you what courts are involved, or if the cases are connected in some way.

Sorry :exclaim:

But for the record, several posters here already know the name of the lawyer I am working with. I am content with that.

That is all I am at liberty to say about the lawsuit at this time.
Last edited by _GoodK on Mon May 11, 2009 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
_rcrocket

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _rcrocket »

Dr. Shades wrote:
rcrocket wrote:But, this Board obviously has a double standard when it comes to defenders of the faith -- anything goes to embarrass and humiliate, so I've made my request and really don't expect much.

You mean, like your numerous attempts to embarrass and humiliate by posting faux-moderator notes?


Embarrass and humiliate whom?
_rcrocket

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _rcrocket »

GoodK wrote:
Guess what, marg: there's nothing in the public record about a lawsuit brought against that boys' ranch by GoodK.


It's cute to see you try so hard, but no, I'm still not going to give my lawyers name so Bob can stalk and harass him as well. Sorry. I'm also not going to tell you what state either lawsuit is in, or if they are connected in some way.

But for the record, several posters here already know the name of the lawyer I am working with. That is all I am at liberty to say about the lawsuit at this time.


That's a laugh. Lawyers who are about to bring a lawsuit worried about being stalked.

You're bluffing. A bluff is the same as a lie.

I note that you refuse to answer my questions about the two supposed instances of lawsuits you've posted; one was dismissed and one did not involve a child. Such bluster.
_GoodK

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _GoodK »

It's cute to see you try so hard, but no, I'm still not posting my lawyer's name here - because you want me to - so Bob can stalk and harass him too.

Why would I do that? You must think I'm an idiot.

Sorry. I'm also not going to tell you what courts are involved, or if the cases are connected in some way.

Sorry :exclaim:

But for the record, several posters here already know the name of the lawyer I am working with. I am content with that.

That is all I am at liberty to say about the lawsuit at this time.
_GoodK

Re: LDS Perception of Family Humiliation-Eric's Original Post

Post by _GoodK »

JAK:

Jared Hamner has worked at the Utah Boys Ranch for twenty years. He "ran work crew" many times while I was there, as an even more extreme form of punishment. He knows exactly what work crew entails.

There are allegations (not from me) of him throwing things at boys - like gallons of milk.

I never experienced any abuse from Jared; in fact he liked me and, like I said, I lived with him briefly before I turned eighteen and left.

But the person who is now running the website http://www.mormongulag.com has many, many stories about Jared.

I call him a liar because;

He knows damn well what work crew entailed, and he would come make it much worse if he felt the need.

He knows all about the website http://www.mormongulag.com, he allegedly called those of us involved "evil."

Jared as a person - well, I don't feel like this is the forum to talk about it. As much as I dislike him for lying, his personal flaws shouldn't be subject to some of the people participating here.

I do talk about it briefly in my book, which I'm sure you'll get to read.
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