Controversial article on Mormons and torture

[_Kishkumen]

Few dare to challenge to get details probably because they know we're right (pun intended)

From where I sit, neither one of you appear to be either exemplary Mormons or exemplary conservatives.

[_Ray A]

That is correct. To vote Democrat is to put yourself in opposition to significant LDS doctrine and policy in almost every way.

And of course it has already been pointed out that even GAs have been Democrats, and even Hugh Nibley. All in apostasy, of course.

What a total sham Mormonism has become.

[_beastie]

This article is being discussed on MAD as well:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 43312&st=0

There is the predictable chorus of support for "enhanced interrogation techniques". There are a few faithful willing to dissent from this view, but they appear to be in the minority. So if the expressions at MAD are any sort of accurate reflection of the LDS population at large, it shouldn't be surprising that several LDS were involved in crafting and/or providing support for the policy.

[_Dwight Frye]

This article is being discussed on MAD as well:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 43312&st=0

It was being discussed at MAD, anyway. Thread closed with both BCSpace and Droopy awarded 2 day suspensions.

Well, thank goodness, they can speak freely here. It's truly a blessing, this board.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

List of Mormon sins (in order of seriousness)

1. Murder.

2. Child rape.

3. Gay Sex.

4. Adultery.

5. Violence.

6. Grand Theft.

7. Fornication.

8. Pornography.

9. Beer, coffee, tea.

10. Anything else mildly dishonest or violent.

11. Looking on a woman to lust after her.

12. Masturbation. (could also be with fornication, but I am being wishful here)

13. Voting democrat.

14. Watching football on Sunday/pretending you have a cold to stay home from church.

15. Wearing cloth weaved of animal and plant.

16. Believing in local flood.

17. Torture.

[_Pokatator]

List of Mormon sins (in order of seriousness)

1. Murder.

2. Child rape.

3. Gay Sex.

4. Adultery.

5. Violence.

6. Grand Theft.

7. Fornication.

8. Pornography.

9. Beer, coffee, tea.

10. Anything else mildly dishonest or violent.

11. Looking on a woman to lust after her.

12. Masturbation. (could also be with fornication, but I am being wishful here)

13. Voting democrat.

14. Watching football on Sunday/pretending you have a cold to stay home from church.

15. Wearing cloth weaved of animal and plant.

16. Believing in local flood.

17. Torture.

Obeying some of this list is torture. Especially going to church when a football game is on.

[_Kishkumen]

I am pretty sure that voting Democrat comes right after gay sex (or it should, anyways).

[_Droopy]

That's all BC and Droopy know what to talk about. Left, right, left, right, left, right.

They are more converted to politics than religion. If you vote Democrat, you can't be a "true Mormon"

That's simply not the case. In three years here, I've discussed every conceivable issue in LDS apologetics, including political issues.

There is a very good reason why so much of my criticism and comment is political. This board is and has always been dominated by apostates/exmos, but of a very particular class. That class is the secular liberal, cultural Mormon group closely associated, not only with criticism of the Church, but with general support of liberal/leftist social and political views.

It is the continuing preoccupation by many here with those issues, and criticizing the Church over them, that brings the responses. Its as simple as that.

Right/Left are general taxonomic classifications. Running from them is just an admittance of unsteadiness and disorientation in the arena of ideas.

[_Droopy]

The subject line set the context for the discussion. You want to discuss something else. If someone else takes you up on it, fine. I am not.

Bush’s key torture architects were Mormon — a coincidence?

Very well then. What "torture"?

[_Droopy]

And of course it has already been pointed out that even GAs have been Democrats, and even Hugh Nibley. All in apostasy, of course.

And of course, it has been pointed out endlessly, that all of these men, and the party they supported, are generations removed from the present Democrat party.

Heaven knows there was more then enough to disagree with regarding the old New Deal party of the Depression years through the late sixties, but we still shared core values with many in that party.

JFK, Hubert Humphrey, "Scoop" Jackson, and many others who were the last of that coalition, wouldn't have anything to do with the post sixties party and its development to the present time.

Nibley may have been fine with the class envy of the old New Deal era and his resentment of big houses up in the canyons and whatnot, but would he support much of the present party platform and ideology?

Abortion on demand from the moment of conception to the moment of birth? Fascist-like syndicalism in heavy industry? The expropriation of the means of production of entire major sectors of the economy (nationalized heath care)? Homosexual marriage? The appeasement of apocalyptic totalitarian enemies (perhaps. Some of Nibely's views in this area do seem to partake of a kind of starry eyed academic idealism)?

No fault divorce? Sex education in the early grades? The glorification of single motherhood? The welfare state (and the attendant destruction of the inner city black family)? Big labor thuggery and political bankrolling through forced union dues against the wishes of almost half the union population? Earth/nature worship? The overt traditional hostility of the Democratic party to religion and any public display of religious belief or to the participation of religious people in the political life of their own nation?

Would he, or Hugh Brown, support any of this?