Why Does Runtu Hate His Former Faith So Much?

[_Ray A]

It strains credulity to say that the leaders of the Church are intentionally pulling a con.

Paul H. Dunn.

Among Dunn's claims that came to be questioned were:

* that Dunn had played major league baseball with the St. Louis Cardinals;[1]
* that Dunn was one of only six in his 1000-man combat group who survived World War II, and was the only one of the six survivors who wasn't wounded;[2]
* that Dunn was the sole survivor among 11 infantrymen in a 100-yard race against death, during which one burst of machine-gun fire ripped his right boot off, another tore off his ammunition and canteen belt and yet another split his helmet in half—all without wounding him.[2]

When confronted with evidence that several of his stories were either completely falsified or substantially embellished, Dunn admitted that the stories were not completely true, yet continued to defend his use of the stories: "I haven't purposely tried to embellish or rewrite history. I've tried to illustrate points that would create interest. [I was] simply putting history in little finer packages." Dunn compared his stories to the parables of Jesus—although they were not true stories, they were nevertheless valuable means of teaching gospel principles.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Well, I think there is some credulity to the idea of a scam, although I find the idea distasteful. Think about it, the prophet, seer, and revelator knows he is not a prophet, seer, or relevator. Or perhaps every prophet since Joseph has wondered where God was, and was afraid to say anything?

[_JohnStuartMill]

Meh. The exception proves the rule.

[_Ray A]

Well, I think there is some credulity to the idea of a scam, although I find the idea distasteful. Think about it, the prophet, seer, and revelator knows he is not a prophet, seer, or relevator. Or perhaps every prophet since Joseph has wondered where God was, and was afraid to say anything?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Now we don’t need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does occasionally, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.

DR: And this is a Revelation?

Gordon B. Hinckley: This is a Revelation.

DR: How often have you received such revelations?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh, I don’t know. I feel satisfied that in some circumstances we’ve had such revelation. It’s a very sacred thing that we don’t like to talk about a lot. A very sacred thing.

Q: But it’s a special experience?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I think it’s a real thing. It’s a very real thing. And a special experience.

Compass Interview.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Meh. The exception proves the rule.

No, no. I want more.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Well, I think there is some credulity to the idea of a scam, although I find the idea distasteful. Think about it, the prophet, seer, and revelator knows he is not a prophet, seer, or relevator. Or perhaps every prophet since Joseph has wondered where God was, and was afraid to say anything?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Now we don’t need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does occasionally, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.

DR: And this is a Revelation?

Gordon B. Hinckley: This is a Revelation.

DR: How often have you received such revelations?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh, I don’t know. I feel satisfied that in some circumstances we’ve had such revelation. It’s a very sacred thing that we don’t like to talk about a lot. A very sacred thing.

Q: But it’s a special experience?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I think it’s a real thing. It’s a very real thing. And a special experience.

Compass Interview.

I don't know. That isn't what I think of when I think of a prophet. That isn't what they teach in church. That isn't what we sing about when we sing "We Thank Thee O God For a Prophet." That is not what Joseph Smith claimed to be.

That being said, maybe that is the get out of jail free card.

[_JohnStuartMill]

That Hinckley interview is a portrait of someone who has deluded himself into thinking that something is true before representing it to others. I think that's less worthy of opprobrium than outright fraud.

[_Kevin Graham]

I'm with asbestosman on this one. It strains credulity to say that the leaders of the Church are intentionally pulling a con.

Oh I don't think there is a concerted effort at this, but then again there doesn't really need to be. This isn't a campaign of disinformation. It is a campaign of limiting information and sometimes misinformation.

You can't tell me that when the First President sits down and discusses what they want the missionaries teaching about the priesthood, that they're not conscious of the priesthood ban against blacks. Technically it isn't a lie to not mention it, but it is on the same level when negros are joining a faith in ignorance, completely oblivious to its racist roots.

Or that they aren't conscious of polygamy when the subject deals with marital relations. They don't really have to consciously lie, they just have to copnvince themselves that these kinds of things don't need to be shared with prospective converts. They interpret information as Satan's way of working himself into their hearts. It is pretty screwed up how they believe this. This is why it is so important for Mormons to call everything anti-Mormon. They demonize it, make other members afraid of it, so whenever information comes to an open-minded Mormon, all the brethren has to do is cry "anti-mormonism" and images of Hauns Mill, a tarred and featherd prophet, and Governor Boggs come to mind. They instinctively reject anything associated with the label.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Sounds about right.

[_moksha]

What would you think of a Jew who, although he continues to attend his temple in the Bronx week after week, posts malignant things about the faith and the people who believe in it? I mean, it would seem rather odd to an outsider looking in.

I would say he would be a potential candidate for Reformed Judaism. Bob, what if the problem was being unable to let go of pent up anger from a run in with some unruly Gefilte fish or his insistence that the story of Jonah and the whale was allegorical?