Thomas Paine - Outspoken Critic of Religion.

[_Ray A]

Paine's writings on religion are nearly indistinguishable from Jefferson's. Why aren't you calling Jefferson a nut job?

C'mon JSM, don't burst Bob's Bubble.

My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. - Thomas Jefferson.

[_rcrocket]

Paine's writings on religion are nearly indistinguishable from Jefferson's. Why aren't you calling Jefferson a nut job?

There is (or was) a painting of Thomas Jefferson in the Los Angeles Temple, last time I saw. Pretty odd that such a staunch critic of religion would find homage in a Mormon temple.

Don't Mormons believe that all of the Founding Fathers accepted the Gospel in the next life? Even if that's just Mormon lore, it still merits a hearty LOL.

Another astute post from Sonoma State. Because I have some criticisms of the later writings of Thomas Paine, I therefore must be criticizing the entire life of Thomas Jefferson (never mind that he kept slaves and fathered 8 children by one of them, never legitimizing them).

I think I am entitled to have views of the founding fathers' limitations and strengths, and not worship them.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Yes, everyone knows that it takes a real nut job to believe that Joseph Smith didn't actually translate the "Book of Abraham" scrolls.

Just because I believe in the literal resurrection and prophetic miracles doesn't disable me from declaring that Jeremy Bentham was a fool in terms of his social commentary.

I'm not a Benthamite. It isn't a very astute criticism of an argument to cast an ad hominem attacking a poster on a subject he doesn't invoke. Is that what they taught at BYU?

"Sonoma State" -- good one! Couldn't come up with something new since your "Justin Thames" alter ego got roundly panned?

That offer to debate political economy still stands, by the way. Not taking me up on the offer is probably one of the smartest things you've done.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Paine's writings on religion are nearly indistinguishable from Jefferson's. Why aren't you calling Jefferson a nut job?

There is (or was) a painting of Thomas Jefferson in the Los Angeles Temple, last time I saw. Pretty odd that such a staunch critic of religion would find homage in a Mormon temple.

Don't Mormons believe that all of the Founding Fathers accepted the Gospel in the next life? Even if that's just Mormon lore, it still merits a hearty LOL.

Another astute post from Sonoma State. Because I have some criticisms of the later writings of Thomas Paine, I therefore must be criticizing the entire life of Thomas Jefferson (never mind that he kept slaves and fathered 8 children by one of them, never legitimizing them).

Why would you criticize the later writings of Thomas Paine in this thread except to discredit his writings about religion?

I think I am entitled to have views of the founding fathers' limitations and strengths, and not worship them.

Of course -- you're Mormon, after all. You can think whatever you like, as long as your bishop says it's okay.

[_rcrocket]

"Sonoma State" -- good one! Couldn't come up with something new since your "Justin Thames" alter ego got roundly panned?

That offer to debate political economy still stands, by the way. Not taking me up on the offer is probably one of the smartest things you've done.

I thought you went to Sonoma State; I read that somewhere. No? Is that what Justin said?

I am willing to debate you. But I am a socialist.

Of course -- you're Mormon, after all. You can think whatever you like, as long as your bishop says it's okay.

If my bishop told me what to think I'd tell him to kiss off. He doesn't know jack about politics or Mormon history or doctrine.

[Guest]

"Sonoma State" -- good one! Couldn't come up with something new since your "Justin Thames" alter ego got roundly panned?

That offer to debate political economy still stands, by the way. Not taking me up on the offer is probably one of the smartest things you've done.

I thought you went to Sonoma State; I read that somewhere. No? Is that what Justin said?

I am willing to debate you. But I am a socialist.

I don't "go" anywhere. I've graduated, and not from Sonoma State.

I used to be a socialist, too, until I read The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek. (Don't let the fact that Droopy likes it fool you -- it's very good. The book has been paraded around as refuting everything except minarchism by people ignorant of basic microeconomic principles, but thankfully, Milton Friedman was wrong on that measure.) I'm sympathetic to many of Marx's claims about capitalism, but I don't think we'll have a viable alternative to it until science-fictiony stuff like the end of scarcity happens. I'm a fan of the Low Countries' economic model: a strong safety net slapped on a foundation of moderately-regulated capitalism.

[_JohnStuartMill]

If my bishop told me what to think I'd tell him to kiss off. He doesn't know jack about politics or Mormon history or doctrine.

You didn't have to tell me this; I could deduce it from the fact that he is still Mormon. Thanks for trying to be clear, though.

[_Yong Xi]

Basically, if you abandon the Mormon faith after knowing of its truth, you become an atheist, and then a nut job, and then a sociopath.

Thank you for showing me my career path.

[_DarkHelmet]

Basically, if you abandon the Mormon faith after knowing of its truth, you become an atheist, and then a nut job, and then a sociopath.

CFR please (other than gospel Doctrine class). And what does this have to do with Paine? He was never a Mormon.