A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:SHIELDS, on the other hand, has pretty much always been about baiting and attacking critics, as is evidenced by the pages upon pages of email correspondence with critics across the spectrum.... Pretty recently, I came across a document which showed that SHIELDS, in its early stages, saw itself as a kind of "cloak-and-dagger"-type operation, where they were actively trying to draw the attention of "anti-Mormon" concerns. In other words, their main goal was to pick fights with critics.


So, if I follow you correctly, then SHIELDS has always been about playing rough with the critics to put them in their place. Sort of the Danite band of internet Mopologetics: they lie in wait to pounce on the critics and kick them in the nards and the like.

What further interests me about all of this, Doctor, is the recurring refrain of secrecy that enters the conversation when we discuss Mopologetics. Just when one is lulled into a false sense of security by the reassurances of Peterson, who likes to paint Mopologetics as a Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood as played by Oxford dons, POW! one is hit with more evidence that the picture is much darker and more complicated than that.

I wonder: is all of this emphasis on secrecy merely the frustrated aspirations of wanna-be spies and private dicks, or is there some connection between LDS security, which is staffed by former intelligence types, and Mopologetic intelligence? At present it would appear to be the former, what with Wee Willy having pretended to be a would-be apostate to get in tight with Dan Vogel and the like, but can we be so sure?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Gadianton »

One thing that makes SHIELDS hard to follow is that because of its status as a mostly defunct organization from 1997, it's hard to tell what on the website has been there 10 years, and what is current.

Are these special items they are looking for, as if out of an apologetic adaption of Zork from that bygone era, things they need now or needed 10 years ago and just haven't updated the page?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:One thing that makes SHIELDS hard to follow is that because of its status as a mostly defunct organization from 1997, it's hard to tell what on the website has been there 10 years, and what is current.

Are these special items they are looking for, as if out of an apologetic adaption of Zork from that bygone era, things they need now or needed 10 years ago and just haven't updated the page?


Yes, Dean Robbers, it is all very curious. I mean, it is a little too good to be true. The image of a mostly inactive SHIELDS--an organization that is about dirty tricks and secrecy already--could be a cover for other things going on. Could it be that the FAIR and SHIELDS cooperation only apparently ended, and there was actually a sort of tacit agreement to divide and conquer, with FAIR taking the "high road," while SHIELDS could do the black ops work and could take the hits for the real nastiness?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I get the distinct impression that the FAIR powers figured out that Stan is a nutcase and realized it would be better for their own credibility to distance themselves from him.


Possibly. That entire group strikes me as extremely paranoid. They had their own founder, Darryl Barksdale, removed from the organization. Later they sent Richrd Hopkins to outer darkness, claiming he had misused funds, and then of course, they banned me from the FAIR e-list at least two years before I went through apostasy because I made Allen Wyatt look like an absolute fool. One can tell from the way they run their web forum, and the manner in whch they immediately censor posts and muzzle posters they don't like, that they are extremely paranoid.

This has Juliann written all over it.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kishkumen »

Kevin Graham wrote:This has Juliann written all over it.


Do you think Juliann has a lot more influence than we have been led to believe?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Analytics
_Emeritus
Posts: 4231
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Analytics »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Analytics wrote:There was a time when they were talking about merging their resources into a single focused apologetic machine. They even came to some sort of handshake agreement which they advertised on their respective sites. As they were working out the details, something happened and they broke off the engagement.


Really? Do you have any documentation pertaining to this? If so, I'd love to see it.


Here is the press release:
http://web.archive.org/web/200103020139 ... elease.htm
Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research
P.O. Box 1277
Felton CA 95018
________________________________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
LDS APOLOGETIC ORGANIZATIONS ANNOUNCE MERGER, RESTRUCTURING SACRAMENTO, Calif., January 4, 2001 – The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR), a non-profit, apologetics organization that addresses criticism of the doctrines, practices and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, today announced a major restructuring of it’s board of directors as well as a important merger with another well-known apologetics organization, the Scholarly and Historical Information Exchange for Latter-day Saints, (SHIELDS).

FAIR reduced its board of directors from ten members to five, and appointed John Lynch as Chairman of the Board. Lynch replaces former chairman Darryl Barksdale, one of the founding members of FAIR, who resigned his board seat and his position as President of FAIR. Stan Barker, co-founder of SHIELDS, will fill the board vacancy created by the departure of Barksdale. Scott Gordon was named as President of FAIR with primary responsibility for the day-to-day operations of the organization. Steve Hurst was appointed as Treasurer, and Secretary.
In voting for the merger, the respective boards of FAIR and SHIELDS felt they were adding strength to the concept and mission for which these two previously separate organizations existed and believe that the two organizations complement each other extremely well. Both web sites will remain for now with only slight modifications and possible future integration planned.

"This is a major development," stated John Lynch, FAIR’s new Chairman. "FAIR has some ambitious future aspirations. We see ourselves as a clearinghouse of reliable information where members and others can turn for well-researched, easily understandable information." The addition of SHIELDS’ talent and insight is expected to help the growth of FAIR. Gordon is a proven administrator and Steve Hurst has a strong financial background and was instrumental in helping FAIR receive tax-exempt status from the IRS. "FAIR has a great mission," stated Stan Barker, FAIR’s newest board member. "FAIR has the potential to be a gathering point for LDS apologetic information. I am confident that FAIR will do much to advance the standing of the LDS church in the eyes of the world and its critics."

"This is a key moment for our growing organization," added Scott Gordon, FAIR’s new president and CEO. "We are poised for significant growth and as new volunteers join our ranks, we need to take advantage of these individual’s talents. This restructuring is an important first step, and I am pleased I have the confidence of the board to help manage this growth." The new board of directors of FAIR is comprised of John Lynch, Chairman, Tom Hickey, Julianne Reynolds, Stephen Marsh, and Stan Barker. SHIELDS co-founder Eugene I. Humbert will serve as webmaster, and will oversee the content and eventual integration both sites. Malin L. Jacobs of SHIELDS, will serve as Vice President of Research. Also staying in the research department are Kerry Shirts, Book of Abraham specialist, and D. Charles Pyle. The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research is a not-for-profit organization that addresses charges leveled at the doctrines, practices and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Incorporated in New York, its primary headquarters is in Felton, California. FAIR currently has over 1000 members and has published five major apologetic works. The FAIR web site is located at: http://web.archive.org/web/200103020139 ... r-lds.org/.

SHIELDS was founded by Doug Marshall & Doug Yancey, in Georgia during the early 90's. While never a formal organization, SHIELDS has built a solid reputation for defending the LDS church and providing solid, truthful information. Shields can be accessed at: http://web.archive.org/web/200103020139 ... earch.org/.

Individuals wishing to contact FAIR can send e-mail to webmaster@fair-lds.org, or can write to:
Scott Gordon
c/o FAIR
P.O. Box 1277
Felton CA 95018
###
Contacts:
Lance Starr
Media Relations Manager
Phone: (801)377-0105
Email: Defenderofthefaith@myrealbox.com
Stan Barker
Board member
Email: sdbarker@uswest.net
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _harmony »

Kishkumen wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:This has Juliann written all over it.


Do you think Juliann has a lot more influence than we have been led to believe?


I think Juliann wishes she had more influence than she actually does. I think Daniel covertly runs the show.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kishkumen »

harmony wrote:I think Juliann wishes she had more influence than she actually does. I think Daniel covertly runs the show.


So you think the paranoia to which Kevin refers is really rooted in Peterson's own personality quirks?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Juliann runs the show.

She even said it herself. That forum is her baby, and it is designed for her purposes.

I remember when people were talking about the unfortunate incident of Barksdale being fired from FAIR. Juliann got pissed whenever someone referred to him as the founder of FAIR. I think she played an important role in getting rid of him.

It is funny because there are several articles by people like Kerry Shirts who still refer to Barksdale ad the CEO and Founder of FAIR.

I also know, from having been in that particular circles, that Juliann's personality has led her tovarious confrontations with people at FAIR.

It seems Scott Gordon is just trying to appease her all the times. When I was banned from the FAIR e-list back in 2003, it was for writing a post that Scott Gordon himself congratulated me for, and then within a couple hours Juliann called him up and bitched him out, said she didn't like it, and I was banned that next morning. I was one of the more visual posters on the list for years, and several people were taken back by their actions.

Yes, Juliann is the one carrying the hammer over there. She always has been.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: A Glimpse at SHIELDS' Financing

Post by _Kishkumen »

Kevin Graham wrote:Yes, Juliann is the one carrying the hammer over there. She always has been.


Well, there are those wards run by the Relief Society president. It is a shame she has so much influence over there, because it does little credit to the organization. Beyond an unswerving loyalty to Mormonism and her connection with Claremont, it is not apparent what she brings to the table. Certainly it isn't a sterling personality or a stunning intellect. If it weren't for the two things I listed, I would have to say she is a complete liability. As things stand, I think she is still, on the whole, more a liability than a benefit, but then I don't know all of what she does for them.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Post Reply