Paul Osborne, Nightlion, and the Book of Abraham

[_Paul Osborne]

Frankly, I’m not too interested in what the LDS scholars have to say about the KEP. I prefer that President Monson step up to the plate and provide authoritative interpretation. Past presidents have failed to do this. Thomas Monson is the prophet, seer, and revelator for the whole Church, not the scholars. I dare think that if the prophet won’t step forward and provide revelation to the Church then he is not doing his duty in this matter and will be held accountable. At the least, the President of the Church should provide an explanation for why he isn’t providing an explanation.

Paul O

[MODERATOR NOTE: Posts split from the "At the risk of looking like a MAJOR fool" thread in order to keep the original thread on-topic.]

[_JohnStuartMill]

Frankly, I’m not too interested in what the LDS scholars have to say about the KEP. I prefer that President Monson step up to the plate and provide authoritative interpretation. Past presidents have failed to do this. Thomas Monson is the prophet, seer, and revelator for the whole Church, not the scholars. I dare think that if the prophet won’t step forward and provide revelation to the Church then he is not doing his duty in this matter and will be held accountable. At the least, the President of the Church should provide an explanation for why he isn’t providing an explanation.

Paul O

How long are you willing to wait for the Church to do this?

[_beastie]

Frankly, I’m not too interested in what the LDS scholars have to say about the KEP. I prefer that President Monson step up to the plate and provide authoritative interpretation. Past presidents have failed to do this. Thomas Monson is the prophet, seer, and revelator for the whole Church, not the scholars. I dare think that if the prophet won’t step forward and provide revelation to the Church then he is not doing his duty in this matter and will be held accountable. At the least, the President of the Church should provide an explanation for why he isn’t providing an explanation.

If I recall correctly, this was BH Robert's hope, as well, in regards to the problems facing the Book of Mormon. All the brethren ever did in response to his concerns was to bear their testimonies.

[_harmony]

Frankly, I’m not too interested in what the LDS scholars have to say about the KEP. I prefer that President Monson step up to the plate and provide authoritative interpretation. Past presidents have failed to do this. Thomas Monson is the prophet, seer, and revelator for the whole Church, not the scholars. I dare think that if the prophet won’t step forward and provide revelation to the Church then he is not doing his duty in this matter and will be held accountable. At the least, the President of the Church should provide an explanation for why he isn’t providing an explanation.

Paul O

Well, his silence can be interpreted in many ways:

1. he's ignoring the issue because he doens't want to open that can of worms.

2. he knows his seer abilities don't extend to this

3. he sees no reason to worry about something that is already established as fact, and concentrates on more pressing issues, like what building project to fund next.

4. he's just coasting and has no better conduit to God than anyone else.

[_Paul Osborne]

How long are you willing to wait for the Church to do this?

Well, I guess until I’m dead. But, once I’m dead the Church has no more responsibility to educate me in matters pertaining to the KEP. I will discharge the Church along with the dead prophets. As a spirit being, I will commune face to face with God and get answers myself. No more need for prophets!

If I recall correctly, this was BH Robert's hope, as well, in regards to the problems facing the Book of Mormon. All the brethren ever did in response to his concerns was to bear their testimonies.

Bearing of testimony is an important gospel principle. But it would have been fulfilling if one of the prophets had deciphered the writings on the Book of Mormon Broadside and the Anthon Transcript. Joseph Smith was willing to translate and interpret things in a blink of an eye and figured God was constantly revealing new things to the saints. I’d like to see the current prophets imitate Joseph Smith. We read in the Book of Mormon that when a record was found it was taken to a man who could translate, a seer. I see no reason why Latter-day Saints can’t openly petition the prophet for a translation.

Well, his silence can be interpreted in many ways:

1. he's ignoring the issue because he doens't want to open that can of worms.

Whether he wants to or not is beside the point. He is the seer of the Church and the only one who can receive revelation for the whole Church. It’s his duty to enquire of the Lord and offer some kind of statement to the saints.

2. he knows his seer abilities don't extend to this

This may be true. If he lacks the faith necessary to translate there can be no revelation given. But if he has faith he can do all things.

3. he sees no reason to worry about something that is already established as fact, and concentrates on more pressing issues, like what building project to fund next.

What about the worries of the saints who want better answers? Should the saints rely upon the words of the scholars and be forced to live in prophetic famine?

4. he's just coasting and has no better conduit to God than anyone else.

If that is true, he should admit it. The saints deserve an explanation from the head of the Church.

Paul O

[_Nightlion]

As a spirit being, I will commune face to face with God and get answers myself. No more need for prophets!

You think? If you never had faith enough in this world to stand with Christ and call down upon your soul in whole-hearted repentance your day and hour of God's judgment that you might recieve the gospel of Jesus Christ and be visited by the the power of the Father and baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost ;thereby entering the kingdom of God........how is it you expect to see God in the next world?

Oh and if you had done that YOU could have lived all your life a real prophet and got every answer you wanted. Then see God.

I have never bothered with the Book of Abraham (what is KEP?) I could not care less from where Joseph Smith got it. I love it. It opens up an entirely unknown, (still unknown to those who never heard me tell them) stage of our creation, the organization of intelligence, as opposed to spirit body birth to exalted parents which comes after. So cool to know more.

Pass the plate between all the scholars/members who want a seer to find out stuff and I will give them all they want. I expect an equiviant prestige and prayers in my behalf.

Or I could make a nation of prophets if they would chuck the BS and seek the be contrite, seek to be meek and seek to be broken-hearted and come unto the real gospel of Christ as little children.

Send those checks to P.O. Box 694 Bountiful, Utah 84010 payable to Latter-day Zion. The bequest should equal or exceed the request.

I know that you're thinking sheesh that's just not meek, but go first and seek to enter at the straight gate and see what comes next for yourself.

[_Paul Osborne]

Nightlion,

For the record, I’ve been baptized by both water and the Spirit – and have lived a life of faith. I have every reason to believe that I will see God in the hereafter. Nothing can separate from the love Christ and he is and always will be my friend. That is my faith.

I have a clear conscience. I don’t fear the Day of Judgment when it is I myself that will judge me. I don’t believe the Father will judge me at all, nor will Christ. When I have a perfect knowledge of all things I will judge myself and render myself to God. I feel this reflects well my relationship with Christ.

Paul O

[_Nightlion]

Nightlion,

For the record, I’ve been baptized by both water and the Spirit – and have lived a life of faith. I have every reason to believe that I will see God in the hereafter. Nothing can separate from the love Christ and he is and always will be my friend. That is my faith.

I have a clear conscience. I don’t fear the Day of Judgment when it is I myself that will judge me. I don’t believe the Father will judge me at all, nor will Christ. When I have a perfect knowledge of all things I will judge myself and render myself to God. I feel this reflects well my relationship with Christ.

Paul O

I bet you hope that it is you who will judge you. Good luck with that.
Uou think that those who are judged latter after they are dead will be saints?...the chosen?....Christ's children? I realize every faith expects satisfaction from God. LDS are as much Pagan in this as are they all.

Even though you rejected Christ all your life and refused by deciet to come to know the Lord as he commanded and yet paint yourself a saint in the LDS hue you hold the delusion that all the doors in heaven are open to your expectations. You trust the Mormon consensus even though from the beginning they have been under the condemnation of the Father for failure to get it right and obey the law?

I could nail you down on whether or not you have truly been born of the Spirit. If you think that having had hands laid upon your head and been blessed of God throughout your life is the earnest of being baptised by the Spirit you have little faith in what God can truly do.

Either you are on the train or completely off track. Either your life took off like a spiritual rocket in flight, needing to be taught by no man, or you crowd in with the mundane who are lifted up in the prode of their hearts above all nations of the earth.

The fact that you are waiting on the platform with what you believe is a ticket in your hand means that you never took the leap of faith and ever boarded. To say nothing of advancing from car to car and recieved then grace for grace and were proven in all things. You are yet to be proven so how can you lay any claim to eternal glory?

You think keeping a firm hold on your supposed ticket is valiance, that it counts for a test and a proof of faithfulness? You never even used it so it convicts you of faithlessness and worse, hypocrisy wherein all the abomination of pride and the persecution of the true saints abide.

[_Paul Osborne]

Nightlion,

I don’t know what makes you so upset towards me personally; neither do I want to know. It seems like you have some bones to pick. No need to pick at my bones!

Anyway, I love Jesus and he loves me. Anything you say cannot make that less so. As I said earlier, I have a clear conscience and trust that God will be there to greet me when I leave this mortal sphere. I look forward to heavenly glory and don’t understand why you would want to spoil my faith in this. You have no power to prevent Christ from blessing me. Don’t judge my life.

Paul O

[_Nightlion]

Nightlion,

I don’t know what makes you so upset towards me personally; neither do I want to know. It seems like you have some bones to pick. No need to pick at my bones!

Anyway, I love Jesus and he loves me. Anything you say cannot make that less so. As I said earlier, I have a clear conscience and trust that God will be there to greet me when I leave this mortal sphere. I look forward to heavenly glory and don’t understand why you would want to spoil my faith in this. You have no power to prevent Christ from blessing me. Don’t judge my life.

Paul O

I am not trying to spoil your faith, God forbid, I want you to wake up and use your faith. Look at the real fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you want to step into the kingdom of God here and now? Why wait? If you wait what does that say about your faith? No true saint puts off entry into the kingdom of God. Nephi stepped in. Laman and Lemuel would not. The sons of Eli would not.

Could not Laman and Lemuel had passed for good LDS brethren if Nephi had not spoiled their faith and confidence telling them that the Jews were not righteous? Every true prophet tells the people that they are not up to speed. Christ did it. Joseph did it. Everyone who is of the truth will witness the same standard as that one true gospel from the beginning of the world.

God promised a flood of knowledge poured out upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints. D&C 121:33. This knowledge was to move them along unto perfect purity, a Zion. That never even got started. Why? Because the LDS chose the form of godliness over the power of godliness just like all the other churches and rendered themselves of the same abominations as all other creeds. Oh, but they do temple work. Worse for them, much worse.

So how can LDS people relax and imagine all is well?