Please come to the source, I will answer all your questions.

[_Jersey Girl]

Thanks, mok and harmony. I'd be interested to know what BSA policy was at the time these horrific events took place.

[_ktallamigo]

Dear Robert:

I hope you are successful in your lawsuit.

I hope you win a settlement of millions of dollars.

I know that won't take away your pain, but you deserve some kind of compensation - even just the feeling of knowing that what you went through has been recognized and validated.

I hope you heal emotionally.

And, I hope that all parents of young boys will learn from your story and do what they can to protect their children from these monsters.

Best to you,

Ktall

[Guest]

Robert,

I agree with Ktalamigo.

Refering to the badly written article (of a few years ago) and your explanations as to what transpired, it's all a little fuzzy to me. But what I do see is that you (and others) have been unnecessarilly damaged through the neglect and ignorance of uninspired men who claim to represent a kind and loving God.

I hope you can find peace and continue to heal.

There is a book I read several months ago called The Shack.

http://www.amazon.com/Shack-William-P-Y ... 273&sr=8-1
(I'd recommend that anyone that considers reading it, doesn't read any of the reviews. The best review, in my opinion, is a spoiler. Just let the book take it's course)

It was a tough read. It was disturbing and even made me angry. There were days, from just a few pages in, when I didn't want to finish it. I'll never look at lady bugs the same ever again.

I did eventually make it all the way through and it was good to do so. It taught me a great deal about the principles of forgiveness, justice and mercy - and about myself and perhaps how God (if there is one) quantifys the value of each of His children.

[_Inconceivable]

For Harmony and Jersey girl:

There's 3 friggin pages here of your virtually non-substantive blathering. Would you do us all a favor and re-read the entire thread from 2 years ago? There's hardly a question about church and scout policy that wasn't answered there. Yeah, actually.

If you feel you have an obligation to defend whatever you think you're standing on, start your own thread about it. No one wants another 3 more pages of your crapola.

Really. Invite everyone. Go express pages of misunderstanding and ignorance on your own thread.

rant off.

flame, off.

(Oh yeah, and have a nice day, too)

[_truth dancer]

Hey Mok,

I sincerely hope the LDS church will one day implement basic policies and practices to protect children.
~td~

I thought they had changed things to help prevent these abuses in the future. Are they still missing the boat? What precise steps could they take in addition to what they have done?

The LDS church policy that youth, girls and boys from the age of twelve on meet privately, alone behind closed doors, to discuss sexual issues.

This should NEVER happen. EVER! It is unconscionable in my opinion.

Parents, educators, and religious leaders should teach children that they are never to discuss sexual matters alone with an inquiring man. It should just never happen.

The LDS church should adopt standards like every other agency and organization who has made the environment safe for children. The fact that they do not astounds me.

I have a feeling the LDS church will not change unless and until enough parents take a stand and refuse to allow their children to participate in such craziness!

~td~

Windows on doors was a beginning. Insurance companies now require this, but how the LDS church gets away with the archaic practice of men meeting alone with a child to discuss sexual matters is outrageous to say the least.

[_marg]

I did come across information on the Net the other day which said that Robert's lawyer's had to drop the case because of it exceeding the statute of limitations...and Robert was left with a lawyer bill of $9,000.

[_Jersey Girl]

marg,

I understand the statute of limitations issue, however, there is something that doesn't sit right with how his case was initially handled. Here is an excerpt from the story linked to on the original thread and on this thread:

On the morning of Robert's court date, Conger, the bishop, and another church member pulled up outside of the Rinde household. In her deposition, Anne recalls Conger saying something along the lines of, "[It] didn't seem like it was going to be too—just a minute—too difficult to handle, too painful, that we would be able to manage it, take care of it." The men drove to court, but when they came back, they had little news to report, according to Anne. And when she asked her son what had happened, he "sat down and he looked a little puzzled and not quite with the program. And he said, 'I'm not sure what is going on exactly, but they told me not to talk about it, not to you, not to anybody,'" with "they" being "Gordon Conger and the other ones."

Anne waited for Robert's case to move through the legal system. She didn't bug the court clerks or the cops; but when nothing happened, she got worried. Then she says she got a letter from the county saying it hadn't found any direct evidence of an attack at the motel.

Robert later informed his mother that he never spoke with the government lawyer. "Robert told me that Gordon said that he would not allow Robert to be talked to alone, that he stood in the place of a parent. . . . And that he would stay with him while he was being questioned," said Anne in her deposition. The meeting then dissolved, according to Robert's federal suit, which claims that Conger and his companions "shielded [Joe] from the law" with the consequence that the Scoutmaster was able to "evade criminal prosecution and to move to another state." The Mormon church has since excommunicated Joe for unspecified reasons.

The church's lawyers claim the church isn't responsible for Robert's trauma. "The alleged abuse was not by a member of the clergy of the church," says Charles Gordon, a partner with Gordon Tilden Thomas & Cordell, who's defending the church in the Rinde case. As for Conger, he's "a very well-respected member of both the community at large and the legal community." In his deposition, Conger said that after taking Robert to the court, he and the bishop waited on uncomfortable wooden benches while the boy talked with the prosecutor. "I would never tamper with a witness," Conger said.

Robert stated on this thread, that the media reports weren't accurate and I believe him. But do you see in the above, the possibility that his case wasn't handled appropriately from the start?

I wish Robert would return here, but I don't think that he will. I don't suppose there is much reason to discuss this further without his participation.

[_RobertPitsor]

Was born under the name of Robert Larry LeRoy Pitsor Jr. after my father.

You are correct in your comments about scouting. It is a requiremnt for all boys/males to join and earn an "Eagle" status. If not, subtile ridicule. Though I have been witness to others escape this because of a medical reason or hardship.

Rob

I think it would help in this discussion if there was a timeline constructed, in order to get a clearer perspective.

I may be wrong in some of the following, but this is what I've gathered.

1969 - Robert Pitsor born (later changed name to Robert Rinde)

1980-81 - family moved to Bellevue

1981 - Robert attended both Mormon church and Boy's Scouts
- abuse began at hands of Paul Lewis(Joe in the article) (Scoutmaster, member of Mormon church)

1983 - family learned that Kimi Kai (sister) had been murdered

1983 - final worse incident of abuse occurred at Issaquah motel involving coat hanger

1984-85 - Mother reported abuse to local ward leaders and they filed with Robert a police report...nothing developed from that
report..mother told there wasn't enough evidence

1999 - Robert left Mormon church

2003 - H.O. Church spokesperson claims is when they first heard of the abuse..Paul Lewis must have been excommunicated
at this time..also Church offers to pay for counseling but according to mother counseling by Mormon therapist was
more damaging than beneficial

2004 - Mormon Bishop contacts Robert & mother on behalf of P Lewis who wants to return to church. Robert learns P. Lewis
has abused others since himself.

2006 - lawsuit filed by Robert to go to court Sept 2007

*** late 1980's Boy Scouts began program in order to prevent child abuse.

Based on the above, and not much more, I'd say the mother was not responsible, it was the Boys Scouts as they had no program at the time for prevention of abuse. The culture they provided enabled abuse to go unchecked and both Mormon church and boy Scout organizations encouraged parents and boys to trust Scout leadership and encouraged boys to join. It also appears that the report of the abuse to church leadership (1984) I believe a bishop only served to protect the abuser and did nothing to seek justice or rectify the situation. The police report apparently was also not handled well, with the guardian helping Robert file report being heavily involved in the church, while the mother it appears was not able to be very involved due to emotional and physical difficulties.

[_RobertPitsor]

Jersey,
You ask a Great question!
I have DID or Dissocoiative Identity Disorder. Formaly known as Multiple Personality Disorder.
I did not discover this until 1998 then went into denial until the assault in 2002. At that time a lot of strange things were happening along with past memories.

In a nut shell a peronsality held the abuse memories of Paul L. Lewis, that "Rob" was unaware of. So the trust I had for him was still intact.

DID is very complex, and no it did not start with Paul. It started with my family of origin, yet he did not help matters at all, in fact the abuse created different personalities to hold those memories/actions, to keep me sane.

I hope that now that I have revealed this, I am not thought less of. You are talking to Rob and only him.

I have been to 3 inpatient programs (self check in or willingly) to learn all I can about my disorder.

Robert,

I'm going to reply to your whole post in a few minutes. I want to ask you a question that you might not know the answer to.

After the first incident, why did you go with him again?

Do NOT mistake that question for me blaming you. I only want to know what your thinking is on that.

Do you know why you went with him again?

[_RobertPitsor]

Thank you for your very kind words and thoughts.

I too pray the Church takes a stronger stance. As of now Bishops are not given any formal course in this matter. Rather they are give a three page booklet and a 800 number to call, which goes to church lawyers.

Hi Robert,

I just want to say how sorry I am for the abuse you suffered. My heart goes out to you!

I sincerely hope the LDS church will one day implement basic policies and practices to protect children.

I hope you are doing well.

:-)

~td~