The Church Is Not True Podcasts/Beehive House Tour

[_KimberlyAnn]

So Kimberly, you like this podcast??

As I said in my opening post, I felt sorry for the missionary. The new information she was being given obviously made her uncomfortable, but to me, that's more the fault of the Mormon church than of the men taking the tour.

With information never more than a click away, the Mormon church should realize its missionaries are going to be exposed to such things as Smith's polyandry, his gold-digging, the Kinderhook plates, etc., either through their own study or by other people. Why in the world would the church continue to send out missionaries unaware of those issues?

I don't think the men making the podcast were rude, though they were persistent. I think the Mormon church is wrong for sending out such ill-informed missionaries.

KA

[_Morrissey]

The whole podcast gave me the creeps. Here we have two nice guides who were happy and friendly and yet they were being set up the whole time for an antimormon podcast. Talk about deceit. Plus, I have a hard time believing Hyrum's name story in the beginning.

But really, if this is the tactics of the antimormons I really do feel sorry for them. Plus, to have a child in the beginning of the podcast say what she said, is kinda brainwashing the child. But this whole podcast is deceitful, especially since it is focused on how the church deceives its members.

You will excuse me for asking, but based on your comments you seem like a decent, reasonably ethical person.

So, I cannot help but wonder why you are so quick to condemn the rather minor deceits practiced by this group making the podcast but are equally so quick to excuse the rather major deceits practiced by Joseph Smith?

Why is the one wrong and the other justifiable (or at least excusable)?

What general ethical principle are you invoking in answering this question?

[_solomarineris]

On the other hand, it is rather sad that someone would attempt to make a fool out of someone for a podcast. I am sure that each question was well planned. And I can assure you, they were meant to confuse the guide. However, I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but I am sure that the motive behind the podcast was to show just how 'stupid' members are.
Now we should all go home and watch Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed in It's a Wonderful Life.

Do not make any assumptions about the podcast before you listen. I agree, it was disingenuous how they set the trap for the guide girl but the boys weren't necessarily rude; they asked right, informed, well known Q's, the girl acted like she didn't know any part of Church History, clearly she was over-matched.
I visit SLC every other month, sometimes people take me as outsider, it is so easy to tease them about the stuff but I won't do it, it is not fair.

[_DonBradley]

What was the point?

[_why me]

With information never more than a click away, the Mormon church should realize its missionaries are going to be exposed to such things as Smith's polyandry, his gold-digging, the Kinderhook plates, etc., either through their own study or by other people. Why in the world would the church continue to send out missionaries unaware of those issues?

I don't think the men making the podcast were rude, though they were persistent. I think the Mormon church is wrong for sending out such ill-informed missionaries.

KA

There were two missionaries present. One was young, my guess twenty-one years old but the other was older. The older one knew more details and in the background she can be heard saying that she knew about the polygamy detail.

It is difficult to know what missionaries need to know as tour guides. Should all know about blood atonement, quotations from the JofD? After all, it is the LDS church who published the JofD. Now it is up to the members to read it but should the missionaries know all the details of the journals since they are only giving a tour of the home? Are they meant to be scriptorians and experts on LDS doctrine?

Now I remember blood atonement very well. It was one reason for Utah's death penalty. And I remember the Gary Gilmore controversy very well. And I remember blood atonement being discussed.

But now, it has faded into the background and no longer stress. In fact, it was never stressed but randomly discussed from time to time when I was a young adult.

The podcast was in bad taste because the men misrepresented themselves. And the child's voice in the beginning and at the end was absolutely disgusting.

[_WjExMo]

Now the apologists like DCP, et al, will attack the young woman, telling her it is her fault for not knowing about these things. They were available to her, if she would have but looked. It isn't her leader's faults for not providing those little details in every day Cult programming. No, if she has an issue with these items, she'll be called a "Crappy Member".

June Ensign 2009:

"Apostasy frequently results when a person commits serious sin but does not repent.

Yep. We left to sin, not because we found out Mormonism was dishonest with us concerning the reality of its history.

I personally have moved to a position of feeling sorry for missionaries like the one described herein. So sad that she has been misled her entire life - never knowing that Brigham had many, MANY wives. So did her hero, Joseph Smith. And so does three of her Apostles, including one who lost a very expensive Rolex during a robbery recently.

And that is just the tip of the ice berg. The further you dig into Mormonism, the more the tears are shed.

[_JohnStuartMill]

But really, if this is the tactics of the antimormons I really do feel sorry for them. Plus, to have a child in the beginning of the podcast say what she said, is kinda brainwashing the child.

Great, the guy whose parents told him that the Native Americans are the descendants of Lehi is going to lecture us on brainwashing. I think my irony meter just exploded.

But this whole podcast is deceitful, especially since it is focused on how the church deceives its members.

I don't know that the Church actively deceives its members. But it is certainly not performing the proper standard of care when the people it sends to educate others about Mormonism aren't aware of its most basic black eyes.

[_harmony]

Now the apologists like DCP, et al, will attack the young woman, telling her it is her fault for not knowing about these things.

No, he won't. Others may, but he won't.

[_why me]

You will excuse me for asking, but based on your comments you seem like a decent, reasonably ethical person.

So, I cannot help but wonder why you are so quick to condemn the rather minor deceits practiced by this group making the podcast but are equally so quick to excuse the rather major deceits practiced by Joseph Smith?

Why is the one wrong and the other justifiable (or at least excusable)?

What general ethical principle are you invoking in answering this question?

I am not sure what you mean by the major deceits practiced by Joseph Smith. But I do think that Joseph Smith was not a perfect person and he did make mistakes as we all do on life's journey. And he seemed to be aware of his own shortcomings.

I think that for him polygamy was a difficult concept to get his own head around. And I do not see him as a happy participant in the practice. And as I have pointed out repeatedly, most of the sealings ocurred during a two year period, from 1841 to 1843. He was a man in a hurry. Did he suddenly get an sexual itch? I doubt it. There was another reason for it.

The men on the tape made a terrible blunder when they went through with the podcast. They misrepresented themselves. And they prepared for the attack to stump the sisters. And in the end, they failed miserably. It came across as unethical and deceitful and the sisters held their own.

[_why me]

Now the apologists like DCP, et al, will attack the young woman, telling her it is her fault for not knowing about these things. They were available to her, if she would have but looked. It isn't her leader's faults for not providing those little details in every day Cult programming. No, if she has an issue with these items, she'll be called a "Crappy Member".

June Ensign 2009:

"Apostasy frequently results when a person commits serious sin but does not repent.

Yep. We left to sin, not because we found out Mormonism was dishonest with us concerning the reality of its history.

I personally have moved to a position of feeling sorry for missionaries like the one described herein. So sad that she has been misled her entire life - never knowing that Brigham had many, MANY wives. So did her hero, Joseph Smith. And so does three of her Apostles, including one who lost a very expensive Rolex during a robbery recently.
.

Any member can purchase the Journal of Discourses from the LDS bookshop, Deseret books:

http://deseretbook.com/store/search?que ... s&x=35&y=9

What is the church trying to hide?