Does the Spirit confirm feel-good falsehoods?

[_huckelberry]

Viking, you sound as if you are asking me to manifest God to you. I am not God, you are applying to the wrong source in asking me.

your comment about convient sounds as if you are thinking in terms of winning an argument. Why would I want to play that? You can have the win right off it you want it. Its worth nothing.

[_Pokatator]

Then why is Moroni's promise or test or whatever you want to call it in the Book of Mormon?

[_WjExMo]

If the feeling supports the doctrine and will of the Cult, then it is the Holy Ghost directing you. When the feeling does not support the doctrine and will of the Cult, it is of the Devil.

If you received promptings from the Holy Ghost and it was truth, then you were blessed. If it did not work, then you were either being tested or there is some unresolved sin in your life.

Have you paid your tithe? Tithing makes the Holy Ghost go. The Holy Ghost is like a ride at Albertsons. You plunk in your quarters, and it gently rocks your mind into oblivion.

[_huckelberry]

Pokator, You may well be speaking to somebody else. In case to me I will point out that eveything I have said on this thread is a questioning of the validity of Moronis promise. I think it is a trap. Anytime people spend a lot of time immersed in a book their mind tends to think of it as true. There is a fairly good likely hood that after being immersed in the Book of Mormon a person might experiece feelings that it is true. I think one should llimit their trust of such feelings. I think even if the feelings mean something they should be subject to scrutiny. I have no intentions of judging somebody elses feelings but I do think it is possible for people to cultivate desired and appropriate feelings to pass a test.

[_Ray A]

Feelings can be very deceptive. I honestly can't say though that I was one who "felt the sprit" when listening to Dunn's tall tales. I'm a great fan of Saving Private Ryan. Yet I know it's all a Hollywood re-enactment. I can still watch it and get "the feel" of what it must have been like on D-Day. It doesn't have to be "true" to convey that feeling.

[_Mad Viking]

Viking, you sound as if you are asking me to manifest God to you. I am not God, you are applying to the wrong source in asking me.

My mistake. You had made statements about "the spirit". I did not understand you statements and was seeking clarification. I am not asking you to "manifest god" to me. I am not even sure what that means. I was seeking clarification. Hopefully, you can provide it.

your comment about convient sounds as if you are thinking in terms of winning an argument. Why would I want to play that? You can have the win right off it you want it. Its worth nothing.

It seems as though YOU are ducking my questions. My comment about your response being convenient was my way of saying that. I still hold that position.

[_huckelberry]

Viking, I do not think there is an objective description of the Spirit which will reliably identify it for others. If you wish to say that leaves some uncertainty about it being from an objective source instead of a completely subjective one I can agree that an uncertainty there appears impossible to erase to my mind. I am aware that implies an uncertainty about God existence in an objective sense. I believe God exists but recogize the uncertainty is always there. That uncertainty is valuable to my mind. I need to see something as both true and valuble to persue it, not just because God says so. After all what if all of ones God persuit ends in Gods nonexistence in death? Best to persue what really communicates to your best sense of what is true and what really matters.

Oh come to think of it that is how I would, for myself, make the distinction you are asking about.

Though there have been times I have felt confronted by the Spirit in a way that recogntion cannot miss. I doubt such moments are completely subjective but logically that possiblity remains. Their value remains wither subjective or objective.

[_DarkHelmet]

If you were to get up in sacrament meeting and tell a completely fictitious story, people would believe it was true, and the holy ghost would cofirm it was true as long as your story was "proof" that the church was true. For example, if you told an amazingly false story about healing someone with cancer by giving them a priesthood blessing, nobody would question it. And if you are a good story teller, and maybe shed a tear and broke down while teeling your completely fake story of curing someone's cancer with a priesthood blessing, nobody would ask for any kind of proof, because your testimony would be so spirtual, there would be no doubt in anyone that it was true.

[_Some Schmo]

If you were to get up in sacrament meeting and tell a completely fictitious story, people would believe it was true, and the holy ghost would cofirm it was true as long as your story was "proof" that the church was true. For example, if you told an amazingly false story about healing someone with cancer by giving them a priesthood blessing, nobody would question it. And if you are a good story teller, and maybe shed a tear and broke down while teeling your completely fake story of curing someone's cancer with a priesthood blessing, nobody would ask for any kind of proof, because your testimony would be so spirtual, there would be no doubt in anyone that it was true.

Not only that, if it were a good enough story, it would be inducted into the FPS Hall of Fame, and would be recounted several times over, becoming more miraculous with each telling. People would recycle the confirming spiritual takeaway repetitively.

[_bcspace]

I was thinking that I would bet a large chunk of money that I could go into a sacrament meeting and give a talk and in that talk, tell a couple of stories chock-full of lies--things that never happened and that if the audience were polled, a significant majority would claim to have felt the Spirit during the telling of the lies.

Do you dispute this?

I dispute that the Spirit would bear witness to me of the truthfulness of your falsehoods. In fact, I don't believe the Spirit, while present, does much testifying at all during some of the blubbering sob stories that have little to do with the gospel in one's life or one's belief. However, there are usually a few really good testimonies, all children and some adults.