Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

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_Ray A

Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Ray A »

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 ¶ Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 ¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Galatians 2:

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Articles of the Mormon Faith:

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
_Uncle Dale
_Emeritus
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:02 am

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Ray A wrote:...
But I say unto you
...


Jesus said, “Compare me to someone, and tell me who I am like.”
Simon Peter said to him, “You are a righteous angel.”
Matthew said to him, “You are a wise philosopher.”

Thomas said to him,
“Master, my mouth will not allow me to say what you are.”

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Ray A

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Ray A »

Uncle Dale wrote:
Thomas said to him,
“Master, my mouth will not allow me to say what you are.”


Who was he, according to Thomas?
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _bcspace »

Is there supposed to be a conflict here?
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_AlmaBound
_Emeritus
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _AlmaBound »

I see a bit of a conflict, but one that can be reconciled by the statement "Christ in you."

I've heard people say that Paul was against the law, but even he agreed that it was good:

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

To me, the idea is that a person is supposed to live his life dependent upon God living in him or her, therefore fulfilling the law.
_Ray A

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Ray A »

bcspace wrote:Is there supposed to be a conflict here?


No, BC, it's just my imagination. And I already know your apologetic rationale. Now be a good boy and go pump some iron. Or spend time with your family. If Mormonism warms the cockles of your heart, enjoy the illusion while it lasts, because it's a religion with a Zero historical basis. Prune what's good in it, and leave the rest to Walt Disney.
_Ray A

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Ray A »

AlmaBound wrote:I see a bit of a conflict, but one that can be reconciled by the statement "Christ in you."

I've heard people say that Paul was against the law, but even he agreed that it was good:

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

To me, the idea is that a person is supposed to live his life dependent upon God living in him or her, therefore fulfilling the law.


There is only one law. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and thy neighbour as thyself. This, as Jesus said, "is the law and the prophets". Having adopted that, the "law" should come easily. Drunk, womanising "prophets" who discard the Law don't impress me.
_AlmaBound
_Emeritus
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _AlmaBound »

Ray A wrote:Drunk, womanising "prophets" who discard the Law don't impress me.


Me neither. Just thought the thread was about reconciling Jesus' words in Matthew with those in Galatians, sorry about that.
_Uncle Dale
_Emeritus
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:02 am

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Ray A wrote:
Uncle Dale wrote:
Thomas said to him,
“Master, my mouth will not allow me to say what you are.”


Who was he, according to Thomas?



We do not have the original Q-Sayings of Jesus and this particular
Gospel of Thomas logion has a much different form in Matthew and Mark.

So -- if we go by the gnostic overlay of the Coptic Gospel of Thomas,
the logical answer would be: "We are all God in our true selves. Jesus
just came to that realization before most of the rest of us."

Stripping off the gnostic overlay, and trying to get back to the original
oral tradition -- Mark must be close to the actual message. There Jesus
denies being the Davidic Messiah and berates Peter for claiming him as such.

Problem is, that Mark has added to the original tradition, and we must go
back even before Mark, to arrive at an answer that would merit utter
disbelief and stoning in a pious Jewish context.

My guess is -- "I am not the Messiah -- You are communing with YHWH himself.
And you, also are YHWH."

That would be enough to throw even a kabbalahist into a tizzy.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Ray A

Re: Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?

Post by _Ray A »

AlmaBound wrote:To me, the idea is that a person is supposed to live his life dependent upon God living in him or her, therefore fulfilling the law.


I see your point better now. My misunderstanding.
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