Parallels between a Totalitarian Regime and Mormonism

[_Inconceivable]

..There is no space for valid criticism of the LDS Church within Mormonism. They don't want the true history of their church to be aired at all. And so when people find out about the real history they don't have any good outlet for their questions. They claim that some things that are true aren't useful so don't talk about those things. I can understand they wouldn't want people to encourage morally sinful behavior, but the unwillingness to explore the difficulties within their own religion is an attempt to stifle the search for truth.

Thanks for your comments, Bart.

Although totalitarian regimes typically carry their laws and consequences to the extreme (imprisonment and death), their iron fist approach to regulation runs disturbingly parallel to Mormonism:

1) Mediocre performance is tolerated so long as the purposes of the regime is progressing forward.
2) History of the regime may be rewritten to favor the cause of the regime. The means of education are controlled by the regime, including the vilification or banning of alternate sources of information.
3) There is a one party rule.
4) If propaganda is ineffective, guilt and fear is employed as the primary motivator (those who have served missions understand this all too well).
5) You are not permitted to ask the wrong questions. In other words, you cannot speak your mind unless it follows the single party line
6) As a citizen you are told to be wary of, and dismiss such comments, questions as well. There are regulations that prohibit comments when they are destructive to the needs of the many.
7) There is only one candidate presented as a “choice” for any particular position
8) You are required to vote in the affirmative
9) In a totalitarian regime, if you become outspoken, you may be censured, imprisoned or even put to death. Within Mormonism you may be warned (privately), disfellowshipped (public ostracism/humiliation, prison/probation within the church) or excommunicated (spiritual death)
10) If you attempt to escape (speak of resignation) and you are caught, you are subject to death (spiritual death in Mormonism). Your family may also be maligned by your actions as well.
11) If you do escape (successfully resign), those that remain are not permitted to speak kindly of your character or the positive roll you may have played as a member. Particularly if you served in a very visible position of leadership.
12) You are permitted to be vilified, if you are spoken of at all
13) Your name eventually fades into obscurity until only your alleged act of betrayal remains.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Incon, the parallel is all very obvious. LDSism is definitely a Totalitarian model...

You said:

9) In a totalitarian regime, if you become outspoken, you may be censured, imprisoned or even put to death. Within Mormonism you may be warned (privately), disfellowshipped (public ostracism/humiliation, prison/probation within the church) or excommunicated (spiritual death) (B & UL added by RM)

However, at one time the 'penalty' for infractions of the code were applied directly and folks suffered 'real' (imagined) consequences with traumatizing effects to individuals and families.

I think there is more sanity applied in similar circumstances today. The pronouncement of Spiritual Death upon a disobedient member does not affect as it once did, in my opinion. The absurdity of the edict is so obvious that only an old Geezer like me, who can recall the weepings & wailings, is the only one to comment, thus far... Mormons are getting smarter.
Roger
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[_Uncle Dale]

...
I think there is more sanity applied in similar circumstances today
...

Indeed.

Picture yourself as a member of the Iron County militia on Sept. 10, 1857,
refusing to take part in the impending massacre of the Fancer pioneers,
(but still hoping to remain a Mormon in good faith in the local branch).

Picture yourself on the barricades at Far West, in the fall of 1838, with
Joseph Smith commanding you to load your gun and to shoot the first
Gentile soldier you saw attempting to enter the town -- (even if you
honestly disagreed that such bloody warfare was God's holy will).

Mormons have backed off a bit in recent decades, and no longer seem
to get their members into such damned-if-you-do-or-don't situations.

The situation of the quietly dissenting Mormon has slowly gotten better.

Except among the FLDS, of course.

UD

[_Inconceivable]

The situation of the quietly dissenting Mormon has slowly gotten better.

quietly dissenting

And that is why I noted that the regime accepted mediocrity within certain margins. When people's hearts aren't truly in it, they can only harvest so much wheat.

Can you imagine how wonderful communism (or even Mormonism) would be without all of the horrific baggage? And unfortunately, both have the baggage no matter how beautiful John Lennon sings.

I gave a man a Book of Mormon who had written a book about his 15 year internment in Kolyma, Siberia. He had immigrated with parents and sister to Russia from the US in the late 20's. He had no idea how broken Communism was until he found himself one of the hundreds of thousands of slaves that mined the Kremlin's gold found beneath the permafrost.

[_Inconceivable]

I think there is more sanity applied in similar circumstances today. The pronouncement of Spiritual Death upon a disobedient member does not affect as it once did, in my opinion.

I would agree. And like Communism, it's foundation of clay and iron will eventually crumble, morphing into the bastard child of what it once was - hardliners yet ranting among the new leadership. Leadership by the way, chosen from the fruit of the original tree.

[_Paracelsus]

The parallels are conclusive. I can agree.

as far as I know, there was one member of the board who mentioned this many times. He was an endurer of a totalitarian regime called socialism. He has seemed to know Mormonism a little more than the most European members. Or than average US members.
He was ignored on this threads. No wonder.

He was called an eurotrash as I am one, from a different country.

Members outside of US borders are pariah, even they are the majority (=more than half). It is no better case in the exmo areas.

This is an american church. An Utahn one.
Leaders come from there. People who don't speak English are nonpersons.
The US government is an item in the scripture. Who cares the US government in a worldwide church, in the onlytruechurch?

"Scriptures" simply can not be translated from English.
(Search D&C for Elias/Elijah, Esaias/Isaiah, Jeremy then compare with the same verses in any other language. See, for example D&C 110 12-14 in Spanish and Portuguese and you can understand what do I talking about. Search that names in KJV then compare them with the same verses in any non English Bible.)
by the way returned missionaries speak languages. In the last five years, the new European scripture translations issued are far worse than previous ones. Check it, if you know that languages! They are word-by-word translations, with full of senseless sentences.
Are the prophets no more translators?

What does "committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham" mean? In the church, nobody could it explain to me up to now, in all European languages I know. Has this sentence any meaning in English? I am sorry, this is my favourite one.

Who cares Prop 2473 or marriage or other laws of "states"? (States of US, not states of the Earth, of the world?)



I don't know, what can I gain here? Really.

[_Roger Morrison]

Inconceivable wrote:

... And like Communism, it's foundation of clay and iron will eventually crumble, morphing into the bastard child of what it once was - hardliners yet ranting among the new leadership. Leadership by the way, chosen from the fruit of the original tree.

I'm not sure if I agree with your out come for LDSism. It will morph, but not into oblivion. As most entities committed to survial, rather than to principle, Mormonism will remix its clay and iron, adding new elements of appeal to continue their corporate purpose. Which is to provide a gathering place for God-wanna-bes, who are willing to sacrifice a large part of now in payment for a stake in an imagined eternity.

In this Mormons are little different than traditional Christians--except for their God-hood claim.

Time will come when the whole imagined projection into another worldly Heaven will be seen as an impossible dream. As Santa Claus provides joy and pleasant anticipation to children, so taught, who eventually recognize the farce and move on into reality; so too will enlightened society set aside Christian theology as a relic of ill-advised times...

We are familiar with the Christmas season lawn signs: "Jesus, the Reason for the Season!" I propose another, more honest one, "Children and Families, THE Reason for The Season!" Maybe on T-shirts too
Roger
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[_Inconceivable]

Inconceivable wrote:

... And like Communism, it's foundation of clay and iron will eventually crumble, morphing into the bastard child of what it once was - hardliners yet ranting among the new leadership. Leadership by the way, chosen from the fruit of the original tree.

I'm not sure if I agree with your out come for LDSism. It will morph, but not into oblivion. As most entities committed to survial, rather than to principle, Mormonism will remix its clay and iron, adding new elements of appeal to continue their corporate purpose. Which is to provide a gathering place for God-wanna-bes, who are willing to sacrifice a large part of now in payment for a stake in an imagined eternity.

I think you're entirely correct. LDSism will never morph into oblivion (no more than communism/socialism has). The name (and even the game) changes but the dynastic players remain the same.