I found this humorous...

[_Gazelam]

These are not real history, but legends and religious traditions passed on that have no more historical validity than Greek Mythology, or Mithraic mythology.

But when you have a religious tradition that fits in with what you know to be religious fact, it takes on a whole different tone.

[_Ray A]

But when you have a religious tradition that fits in with what you know to be religious fact, it takes on a whole different tone.

What is a "religious fact"? Your "religious facts" Trump the "religious facts" of Catholicism?


.

[_Gazelam]

Ray,

What is a "religious fact"? Your "religious facts" Trump the "religious facts" of Catholicism?

In both traditions, isn't the existence of Enoch and his work with Noah considered fact? The Sumerian accounts breate a bit of life into what we know and expand it.

[_Ray A]

In both traditions, isn't the existence of Enoch and his work with Noah considered fact? The Sumerian accounts breate a bit of life into what we know and expand it.

As I've already explained, no. They are considered pseudepigrapha. The Catholics long ago incorporated the Apocrypha into their canon, something Mormonism still hasn't done! It has always been recognised by Catholics that the "spiritual content" of the Apocrypha is more important than whether they are "history". This is stated in introductions to the Apocrypha in Catholic Bibles. If you have to have "facts" to maintain faith, "historical facts", then your faith will wither away very quickly.

[_Gazelam]

Ray,

Genesis is apocrypha? Did your old Priest tell you this?

[_Ray A]

Ray,

Genesis is apocrypha? Did your old Priest tell you this?

Gaz, who selected the current canon we have today?

[_Ray A]

Who selected the Four Gospels we have today?

[_Gazelam]

Well, the Old Testament was put together by Solomons guys if memory serves. The Torah being established previously.

New Testament was put together for Constantine by the leaders of Christianity at that time.

[_Ray A]

Well, the Old Testament was put together by Solomons guys if memory serves. The Torah being established previously.

New Testament was put together for Constantine by the leaders of Christianity at that time.

Here is a synopsis:

By the turn of the 5th century, the Catholic Church in the west, under Pope Innocent I, recognized a biblical canon including the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which was previously established at a number of regional Synods, namely the Council of Rome (382), the Synod of Hippo (393), and two Synods of Carthage (397 and 419).[8] This canon, which corresponds to the modern Catholic canon, was used in the Vulgate, an early 5th century translation of the Bible made by Jerome[9] under the commission of Pope Damasus I in 382.

* Gospel according to Matthew
* Gospel according to Mark
* Gospel according to Luke
* Gospel according to John

So you see, the Church which you Mormons call "the great and abominable church of the devil" (in BRM parlance) is the very Church which gave us the canon. They selected the Four Gospels. And that's what the Book of Mormon builds upon, with it's own pseudepigrahical content, and expansions upon the original texts. So if you're looking for "history", go back and try to understand how the original texts of the New Testament were expanded upon by Joseph Smith and have a far less "historical basis" than the original texts. That is why the majority of scholars don't take the Book of Mormon seriously as "history". It's like building myth upon texts that are already of questionable "historicity".

And when the Mormons say things like it's either "truth or fraud" and can do nothing else, they completely abort the original premise of the canon, which was to build faith, NOT based in "historicity", but in the teachings of the gospels.

[_Morrissey]

The city of Enoch is actually the gulf of mexico floating in orbit? I never heard that before.

I do not think there Ever was a people on the earth who done as much as we have in 40 years. It was the opinion of the Prophet Joseph that the City of Enoch was in the gulf of Mexico, And that Adam offered his sacrafice & Built his first Altar in Adam Ondi Ahman, & the Stones of his Altar are there now to be seen. The City of Enoch was taken up but the City of Zion which we shall build will remain & not be taken away as his City was. Noah was 110 years in building an Ark. We have Not Been 40 years yet in building up Zion in our day & the Kingdom of God on the Earth.

Source: Wilford Woodruff Journal, March 30, 1873. Meeting at the Historian’s Office.

"Again Presdet Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the garden of Eden was in Jackson Co Missouri, & when Adam was driven out of the garden of Eden He went about 40 miles to the Place which we Named Adam Ondi Ahman, & there built an Altar of Stone & offered Sacrifize. That Altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it as did many others, & through all the revolutions of the world that Altar had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled & was translated it was whare the gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water." (Waiting for World's End: The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, edited by Susan Staker, Signature Books, 1993, p. 305)

(Emphasis added)

Eden was also in Missouri, and Enoch lived to 365 years before he got zapped up.

One gets the impression that the early apostles in this the last dispensation just willy-nilly pulled stuff out of their asses.

With gems like this, why would any take anything else these jokers say seriously?