More Spiritual money laundering

[_harmony]

They are not that stupid to grossly overpay for the land.

You said that with a straight face. I'm impressed.

[_LDSDoubter]

This is blatant fraud. I don't know why the federal government doesn't launch an investigation over this. Anybody that knows about this and still gives this church a dime in tithing is out of the will of God and is supporting scams like this.

That money was taken from people that are living from paycheck to paycheck and put in the back pocket of some greedy developers that probably gave a kickback to whoever runs "Property Reserve Inc."

In fact, I once worked for a corporation that was damn near shut down by the feds for pulling deals just like this. I am definitely writing my congressman and asking why there is no investigation on dirty deals like this. They need to keep this church honest. This just really upsets me since I know I gave money to them during this time period. They won't get another dime from me!

[_LDSDoubter]

I'm sorry, I was just reading the MADB link that Cinepro gave and couldn't help but posting again. This is just laughably ridiculous! How did those posters even think this is a debateable issue?

It's simple. A man on the church finance committee structures a deal with his own company overpaying himself 50% for some property. It's a blantant case of FRAUD! There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This Ira Fulton person should be jailed, and any accomplices along with him. Why they try to explain something like this away is beyond me.

I hold an accounting degree and I know that this case would have made a great paper or textbook example for one of the auditing or business law classes I had to take in upper-division. It is a classic example of white-collar crime.

[_Henry Jacobs]

How did those posters even think this is a debateable issue?

Because for some deluded retards, their unassailable fact of life is that the church is true and the church does no wrong. From there, conditioning dictates that they must backfill with constructed ideas that allow them to keep pretending that the LD$, Inc. is actually god's OTC. Any criticism of the church is necessarily wrong and by definition debatable.

"The Church" is the pacifier that keeps the big scary world at bay and puts them to sleep every night.

[_Doctor Scratch]

This is very, very strange. I cannot fathom just what the Church is up to here. I, too, read over the MADthread, and I find myself agreeing with those who assert that there is really no way that the Church would just throw away its money on worthless land. It is hard to think of another organization (the Mafia, perhaps?) that is so tight-fisted, vindictive, secretive, and paranoid concerning its own finances. So what's going on here?

I suppose one possibility is that there is a "bail out" underway. Fulton has given millions of dollars to Church-related institutions, such as BYU. He was also the person who labeled Mike Quinn a "nothing person," thus stopping Quinn from being appointed to a teaching position at ASU (If I recall correctly). So, perhaps the Church is overpaying in order to help out Fulton, who has long been a "front man" for certain Church operations? Obviously, they need him for some reason. The Church would never in a million years shell out any more money than it absolutely had to, so something is afoot here.

[_Ray A]

IRA FULTON: FULL OF SURPRISES

In the last four years, Ira Fulton has surprised a lot of people at BYU with big gifts, totaling some $50 million. In response, BYU has re-named the College of Engineering and Technology in Fulton's honor.

Ira Fulton likes surprises. And not little ones. The Arizona businessman thinks big—in the millions, to be exact.

In late 1999 BYU's Lighting the Way fund-raising campaign was wrapping up early after surpassing its $250 million goal by some $100 million. The campaign would end officially in December, but fund-raisers planned a September celebration to give a final push toward a new $380 million goal.

President Gordon B. Hinckley, of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, had other ideas. Speaking at the festivities, he challenged donors and fund-raisers to do just a little more—$20 million more, thus setting a new campaign goal of $400 million by December.

After the meeting Fulton approached President Hinckley and surprised him with Fulton's first major gift to BYU: a pledge for $20 million.

Well might one say:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And now abideth faith, hope, money, these three; but the greatest of these is money.

[_LDSDoubter]

I suspect Ira Fulton is strapped for cash. The church gave some back to him. Nothing else makes sense (at least to me.) They are not that stupid to grossly overpay for the land.

I could see this if they were putting some groceries in his closet or paying his electric bill, but returning large contributions in the millions through a fraudulent business deal in which he has a vested interest in both sides is inexcusable. I've never heard of the church returning tithing or donations to anyone in the past. This kickback could have fed a lot of hungry people in third world countries, not to mention the starving people here in our own country.

I'm sure glad I saw this thread, because I think I have finally woken up to the fact that this church is not what it claims to be. I was originally just "doubting." However, I can now say these scammers will never get another dime from me or my family.

[_moksha]

Is that information about Ira Fulton sitting on the Church Finance Committee and structuring his own deal really true? Does any documentation exist? I thought that any and all Church finance matters were strictly secret under penalty of something or other.

[_LDSDoubter]

Is that information about Ira Fulton sitting on the Church Finance Committee and structuring his own deal really true? Does any documentation exist? I thought that any and all Church finance matters were strictly secret under penalty of something or other.

Whether its true or not a kickback is obviously involved. I know I'm leaving the church over this (as well as the other issues I've mentioned on here) and I'm gonna try to get my back tithing back. I'm also writing my congressman and asking why this type of thing is not investigated. Even if he's not on the finance committee, he was still paid a kickback above what the property is worth because of his standing with the church. It has already been proven he was friends with Gordon B. Hinckley in a previous post.

[_Yong Xi]

I suspect Ira Fulton is strapped for cash. The church gave some back to him. Nothing else makes sense (at least to me.) They are not that stupid to grossly overpay for the land.

I could see this if they were putting some groceries in his closet or paying his electric bill, but returning large contributions in the millions through a fraudulent business deal in which he has a vested interest in both sides is inexcusable. I've never heard of the church returning tithing or donations to anyone in the past. This kickback could have fed a lot of hungry people in third world countries, not to mention the starving people here in our own country.

I'm sure glad I saw this thread, because I think I have finally woken up to the fact that this church is not what it claims to be. I was originally just "doubting." However, I can now say these scammers will never get another dime from me or my family.

This may help explain what is going on. Looks like IRA is in trouble and needed some cash.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/01/28/20090128biz-fulton0128.html