Joseph and Fanny-Asking for Will's Opinion in Particular

[_Droopy]

And Jacob condemns David and Solomon's practice it total. He leaves no wiggle room like we find in D&C 132:

Grazing in the Cafeteria again Jason? And this time, you now bring the standard works into the fray. Very well then, we have one verse that seems to leave a caveat open; in all things we may be justified except those things in which we are not commanded and authorized.

In another verse, we see what appears to be a blanket condemnation of plural marriage.

And yet, we know Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David and others practiced plural marriage free of any biblical condemnation. Indeed, taking David as an example, and regarding to the reference in the book of Jacob, what do you make of the prophet Nathan's comments to David in which David is roundly criticized for failing to follow the Lord's commandments strictly, in the which the Lord would have provided David with even more plural wives had he been faithful?

What about Abijah and Jehoiada?

[_zzyzx]

The current Joseph Smith manual for Sunday School says Joseph had the plural marriage revelation as early as 1831. Could be he used it for Fanny first.

Or, could be he made her a concubine as Old Testament prophets did before him, later elevating her to the status of wife. It is Biblical... if pretty unprobable. Just as so many men in positions of power he had a lot of women close by and took advantage of them. We'll probably never know the truth.

[_harmony]

This is the kind of thing that is irksome. Who cares whether anyone has heard of "Danel Bachman" or not? And yet you divert attention away from the real question (affair or marriage) by attempting to paint your opponent as either lazy or unlearned.

The degree to which Harmony is either lazy or unlearned is debatable. What is not debatable, after so many years of discussions with her, is that she is here to exorcise personal demons, not to seek the truth.

Uh... Droop? I didn't say that. Nevo did. You might want to get straight who is actually talking, before you slam them... otherwise you look like an idiot. Not that that would be anything new or different, but still... hope springs eternal.

It is a strange thing indeed for someone who would mold the Church in her own image to say "who is Daniel Bachman?"

Who, by the way, is Harmony, and why should we be mindful of her?

harmony is nobody. Do not follow her. Pay no attention to her. Ever. Follow Joseph. He's the one who will lead you exactly where you deep down want to go. harmony will only expect you to find your own way, the way that works for you.. but that's not what you want, so by all means, do not be mindful of harmony. Because, trust me when I say this: harmony is not at all mindful of you. harmony walks a path to God that is based on her own experience, her own inspiration, her own relationship with God. She trusts no man, and never follows men unless the men are going where she wants to go.

Follow her at your peril; she walks a solitary path that isn't designed for more than 2... God and harmony.

[_harmony]

The current Joseph Smith manual for Sunday School says Joseph had the plural marriage revelation as early as 1831. Could be he used it for Fanny first.

Joseph had a lot of revelations, some of them witnessed, some of them canonized. Common consent requires that revelations be presented to the body of the church in order for them to be valid and binding. Sec 132 wasn't canonized until 1850. Joseph spent the last several years of his life outside his own lines in the sand. He lived and died in his sin.

God will not be mocked.

Or, could be he made her a concubine as Old Testament prophets did before him, later elevating her to the status of wife. It is Biblical... if pretty unprobable. Just as so many men in positions of power he had a lot of women close by and took advantage of them. We'll probably never know the truth.

Now that made me laugh. You might want to read up about concubines and wives, and their legal rights (few though they were). Joseph's adulterous affairs were not legal, thus they were not marriages... they were what they were, and it matters not at all what they called them. Joseph put words into God's mouth, claimed revelations that were from his own mind and not God's, and he paid the price for his sin. At the end, God once again showed that he will not be mocked.

[_Brackite]

Grazing in the Cafeteria again Jason? And this time, you now bring the standard works into the fray. Very well then, we have one verse that seems to leave a caveat open; in all things we may be justified except those things in which we are not commanded and authorized.

In another verse, we see what appears to be a blanket condemnation of plural marriage.

And yet, we know Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David and others practiced plural marriage free of any biblical condemnation. Indeed, taking David as an example, and regarding to the reference in the book of Jacob, what do you make of the prophet Nathan's comments to David in which David is roundly criticized for failing to follow the Lord's commandments strictly, in the which the Lord would have provided David with even more plural wives had he been faithful?

What about Abijah and Jehoiada?

The Patriarch Abraham had three wives.

Isaac had Just One Wife.
There is absolutely No Biblical evidence that Isaac Married more than one Woman.

Jacob/Israel had four wives.

Moses had two wives.

King David had many wives, and his having many wives was an abomination before the Lord God.
King Solomon also had many wives, and his having many wives was also an abomination before the Lord God.

Here is again Book of Mormon, Jacob Chapter Two, Verses 23 through 24:

Jacob 2:23-24:

[23] But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

[24] Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

[_Brackite]

Now let us go to the New Testament.


Here is First Timothy Chapter Three, Verses One though Three, From The New King James Version of the Bible:

1 Timothy 3:1-3: (NKJV):

Qualifications of Overseers

1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;

Here is Part, From a Bible Commentary On First Timothy, Chapter Three, Verse Two:

[b] b. Husband of one wife: The idea here is of “A one-woman man.” It is not that a leader must be married (if so, then both Jesus and Paul could not be spiritual leaders in our churches). Nor is the idea that leader could never remarry if his wife had passed away or was Biblically divorced. The idea is that is love and affection and heart is given to one woman, and that being his lawful and wedded wife.



i. This means that the Biblical leader is not a playboy, an adulterer, a flirt, and does not show romantic or sexual interest in other women, including the depictions or images of women in pornography.

( Link: http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/5403.htm )




Now, Here is First Timothy Chapter Three, Verses One though Three, From The New International Version of the Bible:

1 Timothy 3:1-3: (New International Version):

Overseers and Deacons

1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

A Christian Leader is allowed to have just one wife.
A Christian Leader is Not allowed to have more than one wife.

[_JohnStuartMill]

And Jacob condemns David and Solomon's practice it total. He leaves no wiggle room like we find in D&C 132:

Grazing in the Cafeteria again Jason? And this time, you now bring the standard works into the fray. Very well then, we have one verse that seems to leave a caveat open; in all things we may be justified except those things in which we are not commanded and authorized.

In another verse, we see what appears to be a blanket condemnation of plural marriage.

And yet, we know Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David and others practiced plural marriage free of any biblical condemnation. Indeed, taking David as an example, and regarding to the reference in the book of Jacob, what do you make of the prophet Nathan's comments to David in which David is roundly criticized for failing to follow the Lord's commandments strictly, in the which the Lord would have provided David with even more plural wives had he been faithful?

What about Abijah and Jehoiada?

Who cares?

[_beastie]

They weren't "caught" in the barn, at least not doing anything.

Oh, but I forgot, any time an adult male is alone with a young girl, foul, malignant, and filthy intent must be imputed in sexual abuse saturated TD/Feminist/Oprahworld. Joseph is guilty only because he was alone with Fanny without a government certified social worker watching closely, cattle prod in hand, to make sure nothing inappropriate was occurring.

I look forward to the joyous day when all of this comes crashing down around the ears of tenants, managers, and maintenance staff of the Great and Spacious Building.

And great shall be the fall of it.

Sure, droopy, sure - Joseph was alone with Fanny, nothing happened. That's why the virulent anti-mormon Oliver Cowdery called it a nasty, dirty, affair....

[_harmony]

A Christian Leader is allowed to have just one wife.
A Christian Leader is Not allowed to have more than one wife.

Brackie, you are such a gem. Truly. Such a gem.

[_Yoda]

A Christian Leader is allowed to have just one wife.
A Christian Leader is Not allowed to have more than one wife.

Brackie, you are such a gem. Truly. Such a gem.

Brackite is, indeed, a gem.

He reminds us that from a doctrinal standpoint, the New Testament refers to the teachings of Christ, who came to fulfill the law.