F*** Religion.

[_Paul Osborne]

Request to Mods: Since Ray has abandoned the thread, can we change the thread title to: "F*** Ray" ?

Oh, Jersey Girl, are you saying you want to “F” Ray? I'm not sure he is in the mood for that.



Paul O

[_Jersey Girl]

Request to Mods: Since Ray has abandoned the thread, can we change the thread title to: "F*** Ray" ?

Oh, Jersey Girl, are you saying you want to f*** Ray? I'm not sure he is in the mood for that.



Paul O

Not lately. No. Infact I'm sure it's a "no". As in "hell f-ing no".

[_Paul Osborne]

Not lately. No. Infact I'm sure it's a "no". As in "hell f-ing no".

Oh, I see. You're playing hard to get. You must be religious.



Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

I TURNED INTO A BISHOP!

WOW MAN!

Paul O

[_Jersey Girl]

Not lately. No. Infact I'm sure it's a "no". As in "hell f-ing no".

Oh, I see. You're playing hard to get. You must be religious.



Paul O

You know what, Paul? I was joking about the thread title. Let's don't run it into the ground, okay?

[_Jersey Girl]

[

You know what, marg, I think that's also on the MormonStudies website (where Craig's first essay is posted) and I've read it. In any case, I'm aware of it.

It's amazing stuff. I'd read it years ago, but didn't really pay much attention to it. But what he shows is that the Book of Mormon is modeled after written historical accounts describing the Am. Rev. War. It's so amazing it makes me want to read the Book of Mormon. And in fact, I have today had the Book of Mormon outside by the pool as one of the things to read today..so I did read a bit.

by the way,that mormonstudies.com is no longer there. That might have been T. Chandler's who Dale said removed his site.

I tried searching for Mormonstudies a while back and couldn't find it. Now, I see why. That was a great site. Sorry to see it go. Thanks for the information.

As for reading the Book of Mormon, when I read it, I tend to get lost in it. I think it's a good idea for folks like us who weren't raised up on it, to use the chapter summaries as a guide.

[_Jersey Girl]

It's a poorly written book to read. It doesn't flow well at all. That's the biggest problem with it. But if it is about the Am. Rev. War, then I'll force myself.

You gotta be kidding! You never read the Book of Mormon? I can't believe it. And here you are commenting on it. Unbelieveable. Read the book before you make opinions about it.

What makes you think she needs to read the book cover to cover, in order to comment on it or hold opinions of it? She's been engaging LDS for 10 years that I know of online. In her research, she has referenced and read excerpts. Do you not think someone can form an opinion by studying excerpts and the arguments/controversies surrounding the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon?

I'd like to see you engage the S/R theory as readily and in as much depth as she is able to do.

[_Jersey Girl]

Also, marg,

Jason was referring to the Jockers study in his post. He had a plan to research in a certain order and apparently is slogging through his plan as time permits.

[_marg]

For you Paul..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-y-50RW5Ng

I sware, you must be a prophet or something like that!! I was just watching this video earlier today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I could pretend I am a prophet however I've noted you posting 1964 music which I'm familiar with and thought you'd like that song, so anything other than that is coincidental.

I can't believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is so strange!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pinch me. Can this be real? Liz, are you there? Please give me a neck rub.

Does she do that? You are so lucky!

Wow, I've been watching flicks on youtube from the 1977 Led Zeppelin concert in Seattle all night long and was fortunate enough to attend that concert. That was a blow for the nose! I wonder if Dan Peterson was there. Maybe we passed joints together! Does Dan smoke pot?

My husband when we started dating back in the last 60's sold dope to pay for his university. We had paper grocery bags full of it in our apartment when we first got married. I even grew dope in our backyard one year, because I developed an interest gardening. However I've really never smoked. Once I tried it, but I figure I get enough of a buzz with alcohol and I don't want to experiment further. I know the effects of alcohol but I'm not sure about anything else, so I don't bother. I will say with most of the people I know, pot is more popular than alcohol.

by the way this is my favorite of Led Zeppelin song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZjM7-PCrhA&feature=related

I was out tonight and an album of Van Morrison's was playing and somehow in my search this came up,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqmonGtyvQ and of course http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuY1umk4R8s&feature=related

[_Morrissey]

WTF??? Only if one has a pre-existing and strong emotional commitment to it. Other than that, its fraudulence is transparently obvious.

Again, WTF???? I am as sure that Mormonism is a fraud as I'm sure that Mick Jagger likes women.

It is not so obvious. You can not be sure that Mormonism is a fraud because your understanding is based on speculation. Now if you have convinced your mind that it is a fraud, well, good for you. But that doesn't make it a fraud. No one has come up with a viable alternative to the Book of Mormon story as stated by Joseph Smith.

Yes I can be certain that Mormonism is a fraud. My understanding is based on EVIDENCE. A mountain of evidence demonstrates conclusively that Joseph Smith was a fraud, as is the religion he created. There is as little doubt to this as there is that David Koresh was a fraud. Honestly, on what planet do you reside?

No manucript. No rough drafts. No proof that sidney wrote it. No proof that Joseph Smith wrote it.

So??? One may not definitively be able to say who actually wrote the Book of Mormon, but one CAN definitively say that it was not ancient Prophets inhabiting the American continent. The evidence pointing to a 19th century authorship, plus all of the other evidence indicating the man-made origins of Mormonism, are collectively damning.

Now if we place ourselves at that time we can see that we would need a lot of paper, pens, and ink. Plus, most writers made copies of their work, in case of fire etc. But certainly, the person writing this book would need to keep in under lock and key. And then of course, with all the secrecy, the writer would need to be sure that the fraud would be successful. And in this case, it would seem highly unlikely of success as we consider opening up the fraud to 11 more people. And then this fraud would take a very good plan of action which would mean secret meetings with the conspirators with conspirators taking notes of future plans for the fraud. And yet, nothing of the kind has been discovered. The odds were against this 'fraud' succeeding.

It amazes me that someone ignores all the other damning evidence pointing to a 19th century authorship yet clings to such flimsy evidence supporting an ancient/supernatural origin. Sorry, but I do not find this 'evidence' to be evidence of anything at all.

In the history of the world, all sorts of frauds, criminal conspiracies, and the sort have occurred, many of them uncovered. The fact that they were not uncovered, or did not leave tell-tale evidence, does not mean that they had a supernatural origin.

This is one little fraud out of probably millions that have 'succeeded' since the dawn of time.