Joey wrote:Actually,what I suggested, based on actual experience, was that the 24th was more celebrated than the 4th when I lived here. Pretty obvious to me then that it was.
Your suggestion was that, twenty years ago, when you lived in Utah (as opposed to having a place in Park City, I guess), the 24th was more celebrated than was the 4th of July. That would be roughly 1989.
Having lived in Utah in 1989, and since 1989, and, off and on, for a total of about nine years
prior to 1989, I report my own perception, which is that 24 July was
not more heavily celebrated in Utah in 1989 than was 4 July.
Having been informed that 24 July is not now more heavily celebrated in Utah than 4 July, and drawing on your disputed claim that it once
was, you announced, as if it were fact, that there has been a change.
You also suggested a reason
why 24 July was allegedly once more heavily celebrated in Utah than is 4 July -- a claim that I dispute in the
first place: The reason you suggested is that, twenty years or so ago, Mormons didn't much "recognize America's greatness." But this is something that nobody who has really known Utah since at least 1950 would ever suggest, since Utahns in general and Mormons in particular tend to be regarded, and have been regarded since at least 1950, as tending overwhelmingly toward
hyperpatriotism.
(That Mormons ever failed to "recognize America's greatness" is not only factually dubious, to put it mildly, but seems extraordinarily unlikely in view of the fact that canonical Mormon scripture announces that it was God himself who "established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I [God] raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood" [Doctrine and Covenants 101:80], and that God says that the Constitution "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles" [Doctrine and Covenants 101:77]. "May those principles," prayed Joseph Smith in the canonized 1836 dedicatory prayer for the Kirtland Temple, "which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever" [Doctrine and Covenants 109:54]. No other American faith gives the Founding of the United States official status in its canonical scriptures.)
Joey wrote:What I also stated, and provided factual evidence in support of was that the Mormon church and, I suppose, the theocracy of Utah, has always been influenced by public pressure. Hell, even the liquor laws in Utah changed as a result of the pressure!
Are you now backing away from your suggestion, specifically, that the dubious change that you assert from supposed Mormon failure to "recognize America's greatness" in 1989 to today's apparent recognition of that greatness came about because of vague, undemonstrated, and undocumented "pressure" from outside?
If so, good.
Joey wrote:Deal with the facts and issues of what was said Danny as opposed to always putting up your smoke screens of avoidance!
You've offered no facts.
I haven't avoided your assertions; I've flatly contradicted and refuted them.
All that's really left to you is insults and mockery. Your specialty, it seems.
Joey wrote:This ain't the Olivewood Bookstore bro!
Quite true. In my experience, events and exchanges there have been both substantive and civil.