Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

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_bcspace
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _bcspace »

You're fantasizing that Obama and Chavez are not on the same side.


You are dumb.


How so?

I used to work for Obama's campaign.


Which only proves that you are the dumb one. You do sound like one of his schills.

I know many people in the administration, none of whom are ideological kin to the Chavistas.


There are indeed many democrats and lefties who are just ignorant pawns.

Stop talking out of your ass, please.


I see you have no evidence to back up your claims. Just like Obama has posted no evidence yet of natural born US citizenship.

No you didn't. But it's a good bet Obama will back away from his initial position and you will call it "strategy".

I'll take that bet, and I'll give you 3:1. You're willing to put your money where your mouth is, right?


That's a pretty good bet.

It is also a common Marxist tactic to string words together to form sentences.


You would know better than I.

Look, the Chavez regime has significant Marxist elements, and even though it's not precisely Marxist, I don't have much of a problem when people call it Marxist. But this isn't what you said. You said that Obama would "hire" Marx.


Yes I did. He's already hired Marx and Ayers in his heart and his policies are that of social democracy (You DO know what that is with you ostensibly being exposed to the Obama plan don't you?) which leads to Marxism.

That's not the kind of statement that anyone with serious economic training and a thorough knowledge of Obama's policies would make.


That's something you obviously don't have knowledge of and yes, one of my degrees happens to be in economics.

(Not to mention the more hilarious problem: Obama doesn't possess Sparkle Jesus Magic, so he can't bring Marx back from the dead in order to hire him).


His philosophies live on as you well know. Obama himself is a Marxist and yes, I'm quite certain Obama would hire someone like him if he could slip it under the radar. I'll bet you 10 to 1 that Ayers would be a part of this administration if it hadn't been for the negative publicity.

When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed. Maybe you should try the same thing.


Seems then as if the above is your last post here, but I'll bet you still have some gas to pass.
Machina Sublime
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_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

bcspace wrote:
You are dumb.


How so?
Well, for one, you can't spell. More importantly, though: your thoughts are inane.

I used to work for Obama's campaign.


Which only proves that you are the dumb one. You do sound like one of his schills.
It's spelled "shill". See? You're dumb.

I know many people in the administration, none of whom are ideological kin to the Chavistas.


There are indeed many democrats and lefties who are just ignorant pawns.
Yes, Obama's top Cabinet appointees and advisers are merely ignorant pawns. Do you know how the executive branch works? If Obama were a secret Muslim Marxist (again, that's a contradiction in terms) terrorist, he wouldn't be delegating his economic powers to center-left appointees like Summers and Geithner, and delegating his foreign policy powers to center-right Bush holdovers, like Robert Gates and Brent Scowcroft.

Again: dumb.

Stop talking out of your ass, please.


I see you have no evidence to back up your claims. Just like Obama has posted no evidence yet of natural born US citizenship.
You see no evidence because you have the unfortunate handicap of being born to inbred Mormon yokels. Note that this has no bearing on whether such evidence actually exists.

I'll take that bet, and I'll give you 3:1. You're willing to put your money where your mouth is, right?


That's a pretty good bet.
Okay. How much are you willing to put down?

It is also a common Marxist tactic to string words together to form sentences.


You would know better than I.
Yes, I would, because I study the history of economic thought via primary sources, while you only get your information secondhand through dopey talk radio BS.

Look, the Chavez regime has significant Marxist elements, and even though it's not precisely Marxist, I don't have much of a problem when people call it Marxist. But this isn't what you said. You said that Obama would "hire" Marx.


Yes I did. He's already hired Marx and Ayers in his heart and his policies are that of social democracy (You DO know what that is with you ostensibly being exposed to the Obama plan don't you?) which leads to Marxism.
Social democracy leads to Marxism? No. There's not any more reason to believe that than to believe that social democracy leads to anarcho-capitalism.

"He's already hired Marx in his heart" -- stop, man, you're killing me! :lol: :lol:

That's not the kind of statement that anyone with serious economic training and a thorough knowledge of Obama's policies would make.


That's something you obviously don't have knowledge of and yes, one of my degrees happens to be in economics.
Oh, really? Where did you study economics? BYU? :rolleyes:

(Not to mention the more hilarious problem: Obama doesn't possess Sparkle Jesus Magic, so he can't bring Marx back from the dead in order to hire him).


His philosophies live on as you well know. Obama himself is a Marxist and yes, I'm quite certain Obama would hire someone like him if he could slip it under the radar. I'll bet you 10 to 1 that Ayers would be a part of this administration if it hadn't been for the negative publicity.
It's pretty telling that you have the most bravado over something that can't possibly be disproven, due to the lack of any possible counterfactual. Hey, bcspace! I'll bet you 10 to 1 that the First Presidency would have turned into their true reptilian form if the sun hadn't risen yesterday!

Bitch, please.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_bcspace
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _bcspace »

Ah, now we have Clinton calling the legal and constitutional government of Honduras a "regime". Is it part of the plan to lie to the American people JSM? Does Obama lie to manipulate the outcome? I think that's the best you can hope for unfortunately. It's akin to hoping the continuation of the Iraq war goes badly (and trying to ensure it does by talking it down) in orer to get elected.

Pay attention JSM. Stop spewing invective and unproven claims for a moment and you might learn something here. Heck, you might be the first lefty ever to learn a lesson from history.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
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Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

Do you own a dictionary? Legal governments fit the definition of the word "regime".

You should read the following article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... xk3ZonJdrA

But it's not from WorldNutDaily, so you probably won't.

You never told me where you studied economics, by the way.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_bcspace
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _bcspace »

Do you own a dictionary? Legal governments fit the definition of the word "regime".


It's quite obvious it's being used in this fashion....

a mode or system of rule or government: a dictatorial regime.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

You should read the following article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... xk3ZonJdrA


You should read....

In a perfect world former Honduran President Manuel Zelaya would be in jail in his own country right now, awaiting trial. The Honduran attorney general has charged him with deliberately violating Honduran law and the Supreme Court ordered his arrest in Tegucigalpa on June 28.

But the Honduran military whisked him out of the country, to Costa Rica, when it executed the court's order.

His expulsion has given his supporters ammunition to allege that he was treated unlawfully. Now he is an international hero of the left. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Cuban dictator Raúl Castro, and Venezuela's Hugo Chávez are all insisting that he be restored to power. This demand is baseless. Mr. Zelaya's detention was legal, as was his official removal from office by Congress.

If there is anything debatable about the crisis it is the question of whether the government can defend the expulsion of the president. In fact it had good reasons for that move and they are worth Mrs. Clinton's attention if she is interested in defending democracy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124744094880829815.html


Of course we know that no lefty is interested in defending democracy except when it temporarily serves their interest to destroy it.

But it's not from WorldNutDaily, so you probably won't.


Did I reference that source on this subject? Your paranoia is showing again....

You never told me where you studied economics, by the way.


I never offered to tell you.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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_bcspace
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _bcspace »

Behind the socialist consensus on Honduras: Hugo Chavez and the São Paulo Forum

The following interview is with Alejandro Peña Esclusa, president of UnoAmerica and author of The Foro de São Paulo: A Threat to Freedom in Latin America.

Why is the world allied against the new Honduras government?

In part, because of disinformation, and in part, because Hugo Chavez and his allies have been conducting a black propaganda operation against the new government, in order to defend their friend Zelaya. Unfortunately, some authorities in the U.S. have fallen for that version, without really knowing what went on.

Why is Obama siding with Chavez and Castro on this matter?

I believe that, on the one hand, Obama is beginning to show his socialist tendencies, which were denounced during the American presidential campaign. On the other hand, Obama is letting himself be influenced by several presidents of Latin America, particularly Lula of Brazil, who is the real power behind the São Paulo Forum.

Can Honduras be saved from Chavez?

I think it can, but it requires the participation of all citizens, not only of Latin America, but of the U.S. as well. Honduras is facing tremendous pressures, and will not be able to bear them without the help of the world public opinion. Every article, every interview, in favor of the Honduran democracy helps to defend their institutions against Chavez’s assault.

What has happened to the Organization of American States?

Unfortunately, 15 presidents of Latin America belong to the São Paulo Forum, and seven other governments (especially from the Caribbean islands, who are dependent on Chavez’s oil shipments) do as well. We could say, then, that 22 of 34 of the votes in the OAS are controlled by Chavez. José Miguel Insulza, Secretary General of the OAS, himself belongs to the Chilean Socialist Party, which is a member of the São Paulo Forum.

Some of the pro-Zelaya protesters in Honduras have been seen with symbols of Che Guevara. What does that tell you? Why the fascination with Che?

The São Paulo Forum has done a lot of propaganda in favor of Che and Fidel Castro. It is now trying to change the history books in order to modify our traditional conservative values and create instead a new set of principles based on socialism. Many youngsters are victims of that campaign.

What is your opinion about the negotiations that have been announced between the Honduran government and Zelaya?

I welcome any negotiations that will serve to prevent violent confrontations. And I think it’s the best way to find a durable solution to the Honduran crisis. But it’s fair to say that there are not two factions in Hondurans, but just one, because the overwhelming majority of the Honduran population supports the new government. The other “faction” is composed of paid agitators financed by Chavez and led by foreigners, most of them Nicaraguans linked to the government of Ortega.

What center-right or pro-American governments exist in Latin America today?

I would say only four: Colombia, Mexico, Peru and Panama. Don’t be fooled by Lula; he is with Fidel Castro and with Chavez, but he is so hypocritical that he will claim to be a friend of the U.S.

How much freedom is left in Venezuela?

There is very little room left for freedom and democracy in Venezuela. This is a “third generation” dictatorship; not so cruel and obvious as Fidel Castro’s, but just as evil. There are elections, but rigged. There is certain freedom of press, but the media is threatened with closure if it “crosses the line.” Not all Chavez’s adversaries are persecuted, just some, but enough to spread fear among the rest. All three branches of power are controlled by Chavez. The Constitution has been rewritten to allow Chavez to stay in power indefinitely. Venezuelan petrodollars are used to export his Marxist revolution throughout Latin America. And the government is closely related with Colombian narco-terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists.

Can freedom be saved in Venezuela?

Yes, but not through elections, because, as I mentioned before, they are rigged. Only a process similar to that of Honduras can rescue democracy and freedom in Venezuela. That’s why Chavez is so interested in crushing the new Honduran government. He does not want such an example spread to his own country.

Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of freedom in Latin America?

I am very optimistic, but it will be a very complicated and traumatic outcome, which many won’t understand. Exactly as what is happening in Honduras. I think it would be useful for the American population to read again their own Declaration of Independence, especially the part about the rights of the people to be free from tyrants. This is exactly what Hondurans are doing today, and most probably what Venezuelans will do in the near future.

It is a shame that President Obama is aligning himself with the allies of Chavez and Ahmadinejad to crush a democratic process in Honduras. I ask myself: Will he really be conscious of the tremendous damage he is inflicting to democracy and freedom in our continent? Does he really know the danger he is posing to the national security of the United States?

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/la_honduras0551_07_10.asp
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

bcspace wrote:
Do you own a dictionary? Legal governments fit the definition of the word "regime".


It's quite obvious it's being used in this fashion....

a mode or system of rule or government: a dictatorial regime.
Um, no.

You should read....

In a perfect world former Honduran President Manuel Zelaya would be in jail in his own country right now, awaiting trial. The Honduran attorney general has charged him with deliberately violating Honduran law and the Supreme Court ordered his arrest in Tegucigalpa on June 28.

But the Honduran military whisked him out of the country, to Costa Rica, when it executed the court's order.

His expulsion has given his supporters ammunition to allege that he was treated unlawfully. Now he is an international hero of the left. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Cuban dictator Raúl Castro, and Venezuela's Hugo Chávez are all insisting that he be restored to power. This demand is baseless. Mr. Zelaya's detention was legal, as was his official removal from office by Congress.

If there is anything debatable about the crisis it is the question of whether the government can defend the expulsion of the president. In fact it had good reasons for that move and they are worth Mrs. Clinton's attention if she is interested in defending democracy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124744094880829815.html
That article is either dishonest or monumentally stupid (or both). It implies that Clinton, Castro, and Chavez all have the same reasons for restoring Zelaya to power, even though this is the furthest thing from the truth.

Interestingly, though, the article notes that Zelaya's "expulsion has given his supporters ammunition to allege that he was treated unlawfully," which is what I pointed to earlier as an explanation for the Obama administration's favoring of Zelaya's reinstatement. (Like Obi-wan Kenobi, cutting Zelaya down might only make him stronger.) I wonder if you'll take that point more credibly now, or if you'll simply embrace the contradiction.

Of course we know that no lefty is interested in defending democracy except when it temporarily serves their interest to destroy it.
Wow, are you dumb. You probably don't even realize that you just undercut your own point. Zelaya (like his progenitor, Chavez) was democratically elected, and remains popular in the region. The problem with these characters isn't their stance towards democracy; it's their stance toward constitutional freedoms. These ideals butt up against each other quite often, but you treat them as if they were the same, which only someone who has no education on the subject would do. Read Fareed Zakaria's book The Future of Freedom for a good primer on this tension in liberal democracies. (Zakaria is a center-right foreign policy figure, so I apologize for referring you to a book written by a Commie.)

You never told me where you studied economics, by the way.


I never offered to tell you.


I'd be embarrassed if I backed up my posts were backed up with an associate's degree in economics from Ricks College, too.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_bcspace
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _bcspace »

Wow, are you dumb. You probably don't even realize that you just undercut your own point. Zelaya (like his progenitor, Chavez) was democratically elected, and remains popular in the region. The problem with these characters isn't their stance towards democracy; it's their stance toward constitutional freedoms.


No constitutional freedoms were violated when Zelaya was ousted by the Supreme court and Congress. And all that because they recognized a Chavez style take over when they saw one.

My how the worm turns! Now the US backed Chavez wannabe has called for an insurrection. So much for supporting the democratic candidate..... lol

I'd be embarrassed if I backed up my posts were backed up with an associate's degree in economics from Ricks College, too.


It's not from Ricks. Of course now you're fully engaged in logical fallacy because you can't support your position that this is all part of the Obama plan to what.......? Embarrass/out maneuver Chavez? He wouldn't do that to his friends.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

bcspace wrote:
Wow, are you dumb. You probably don't even realize that you just undercut your own point. Zelaya (like his progenitor, Chavez) was democratically elected, and remains popular in the region. The problem with these characters isn't their stance towards democracy; it's their stance toward constitutional freedoms.


No constitutional freedoms were violated when Zelaya was ousted by the Supreme court and Congress. And all that because they recognized a Chavez style take over when they saw one.

Stop, please -- for your own good. I said that Chavez and Zelaya had problematic stances toward constitutional freedoms. Your ignorance is showing.

My how the worm turns! Now the US backed Chavez wannabe has called for an insurrection. So much for supporting the democratic candidate..... lol
"lol" is right.

I'd be embarrassed if I backed up my posts were backed up with an associate's degree in economics from Ricks College, too.


It's not from Ricks. Of course now you're fully engaged in logical fallacy because you can't support your position that this is all part of the Obama plan to what.......? Embarrass/out maneuver Chavez? He wouldn't do that to his friends.

Chavez is not Obama's friend any more than any other leader of a Latin American state, right or left. Your Idahoan paranoia doesn't change that.

I have employed no logical fallacy in this thread.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
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Re: Obama sides with Chavez style "democracy"

Post by _The Nehor »

By this logic Reagan was a friend of Hussein as he supplied aid to him during the Iran-Iraq war.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
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