rocket wrote:I don't get it. How can you attack Rollo for a tactic commonly pursued here? Basically, every fifth post is a smear against the Church or some living person by pointing to the foibles of some particular individual.
In all sincerity, do you not think that the LDS Church's grandiose claims for itself viz direct revelation from God, unique gift and accompaniment of Holy Ghost imparted wisdom, divine inspiration, extra-ordinary powers of discernment, one and only divine approbation, inspired leaders who speak the mind and will of God, callings coming directly from God, and the like make it ripe for a bit of a reality check when such obvious indications of its very ordinary humanness come to light?
Those who make extra-ordinary claims for themselves are, quite appropriately, held to higher standards than those who are willing to concede their ordinary human baseness.
Morrissey wrote: Ok, I've read and reread Rollo's post. I am obviously missing something. Can you please point out to me where he implies that this one man's action defines the LDS Church?
That was my exact reaction as well.
The only thing it makes me think about was the fact that the church tends to encourage too much trust in priesthood holding men. However, I'm not saying this case actually demonstrates that fact, since the article was pretty short on details.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Manfredjinsinjin wrote:How disgusting of you to try to smear CES as a whole for the crimes committed by one of its employees. What an awful, bigoted display.
And he does this precisely where and how? Please elucidate.
solomarineris wrote:Rollo, through the years I followed your posts on here, RFM because you are very good about informing people. But this one is not one of them. How can you presume one man's action define or reflect negatively upon LDS Church? Most of us are parents here, if one of the kids rapes or kills, should that action define us as bad parents? I don't think so. If anything Church is probably over-sensitive about educating it's people about the procedures.
You make good points. However, this is a man who was approved by his Bishop to serve in this position. Where is the discernment? If a bishop can't sniff out a child rapist, why in the hell would I trust him with personal matters of potential eternal consequence. This simply demonstrates that we place WAY too much faith in our leaders. Seems like we need to lower their status from "Judges in Israel" to good men who occasionally give good advice.
Manfredjinsinjin wrote:How disgusting of you to try to smear CES as a whole for the crimes committed by one of its employees. What an awful, bigoted display.
Morrissey wrote:And he does this precisely where and how? Please elucidate.
Manfredjinsinjin wrote:See the OP, idiot.
No crap Sherlock. I am questioning your presumed ability to discern in statements implications that are not there. The question remains. Care to demonstrate how Rollo's statement is an attempt to impute this crime to the entire CES?
TAK In a Civil Court the church will bare some of the responsibility as this church leader abused his position. Of course the church will assume its normal position and roll over like a stuck pig and settle out of court. -With your tithing money!
Is this fact only valid with LDS Church? Or All entities are equally responsible for employees like this? I run a company too, who is to predict one of my employees will not screw up? My firm will bear some responsibility too. This is not news, it is gossip. It would have a news value if few more CES teachers were caught with same felony then I'd say they are in deep trouble.
Morrissey wrote:Those who make extra-ordinary claims for themselves are, quite appropriately, held to higher standards than those who are willing to concede their ordinary human baseness.
What extra-ordinary claims to LDS make about themselves?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
TAK In a Civil Court the church will bare some of the responsibility as this church leader abused his position. Of course the church will assume its normal position and roll over like a stuck pig and settle out of court. -With your tithing money!
Is this fact only valid with LDS Church? Or All entities are equally responsible for employees like this? I run a company too, who is to predict one of my employees will not screw up? My firm will bear some responsibility too. This is not news, it is gossip. It would have a news value if few more CES teachers were caught with same felony then I'd say they are in deep trouble.
He's talking about discernment, solo. (or the lack thereof).
Until you claim to have a direct link to God, to speak for God, etc etc, you and your company are exempt.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
"How can you presume one man's action define or reflect negatively upon LDS Church?"
A failure of Leadership to receive inspiration about what kind of person this teacher really was. Very simple but a problem repeated over and over and over again.
From two men 'sealed' in marriage in the Temple with one passing as a woman to cheats in business to rapists, child molesters and folk like Mark Hoffman there seems to be 'a failure to discern'.
If the Holy Ghost speaks to leadership in the LDS Church is anyone actually listening?
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.