Your entire life and beyond. I daresay the failsafe testimony you seek is not even given to most LDS at any time before the judgement.
So do you think then when an LDS person gives a testimony and says "I know....." they are really just saying "I really believe this a lot, I have lots and lots of faith it it really true, I have had experiences that I think shiwper to me that it is true but I really don't know it beyond a shadow of a doubt." You know Alma 32 says when we know we no longer live by faith. I have long wondered when we all say in FT meeting that we KNOW if we no longer have any faith.
I know Mr. Bourne that you avoid all contact with me but I must tell you that Alma is refering to those who actually recieve the gift and power of the Holy Ghost and can thereby say that they know the Lord. That is the testimony that gets APED by all the pretenders.
The fault is the faithlessness of LDS leadership who fear to require that every members whose name is taken is certified with their own original spiritual confirmation that warrants them true saints.
Nightlion wrote:How does the LDS Church screw over its members? Let me count the ways.
1. You are allowed membership without bringing forth and acceptable sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spiirit..........fail to be wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. 2. Allowed to partake of the emblems of the sacrament unworthily. ( only those who accomplish #1. are worthy) ..................come under the condemnation of the Father. 3 Nephi 18 3. Allowed to enter into the House of the Lord (at least when it used to really be that) in an unclean state for paying money and sustaining those who by graft open all the doors for you..................will suffer the plagues promised unto those who blaspheme by pretending to know the name of the Lord when they failed at #1 and do not know him. D&C 112 4. Blinded by the priestcrafts of men to take your ease and just do the best you can and waste an entire life when you could have gotten it right if you only knew.
These are the major defects of the past LDS Church, now of course it is dying along with Babylon that is on its way out. I do not think that the Holy Ghost will witness to the LDS Church now. Book of Mormon, yes, Joseph Smith, yes but the Church has had the gospel taken from among it. Long Live ZION!
Gee. I guess there's no reason to wonder why you were ex'ed.
Back up a second and take a look at what you are saying. Nowhere in my list am I slightly incorrect. It is all founded upon scriptural commandments. And for that I should be cast out?
The LDS sinned against the gospel by expelling me and they shall reap the Whirlwind.
bcspace wrote:Your entire life and beyond. I daresay the failsafe testimony you seek is not even given to most LDS at any time before the judgement.
And this idea is why the interpretation of Moroni's promise given by missionaries and Church leadership is less like a honest attempt at receiving an answer (yes, no, or silence all being possibilities worthy of being considered), and more like an excellently constructed self-brainwashing algorithm.
Actually, if Joseph Smith or Sidney wrote the book as some critics claim, this part of the Book of Mormon was quite a risk. If a fraud, the authors would naturally assume that a witness would be had if prayed over. And yet, how could they possibly believe so? Can one receive a witness from Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn? I don't think so. To ask people reading it to get a witness through prayer takes hutspah if a fraud. But if the book is what it claims to be, it would make sense.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Nightlion wrote: How does the LDS Church screw over its members? Let me count the ways.
1. You are allowed membership without bringing forth and acceptable sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spiirit..........fail to be wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. 2. Allowed to partake of the emblems of the sacrament unworthily. ( only those who accomplish #1. are worthy) ..................come under the condemnation of the Father. 3 Nephi 18 3. Allowed to enter into the House of the Lord (at least when it used to really be that) in an unclean state for paying money and sustaining those who by graft open all the doors for you..................will suffer the plagues promised unto those who blaspheme by pretending to know the name of the Lord when they failed at #1 and do not know him. D&C 112 4. Blinded by the priestcrafts of men to take your ease and just do the best you can and waste an entire life when you could have gotten it right if you only knew.
These are the major defects of the past LDS Church, now of course it is dying along with Babylon that is on its way out. I do not think that the Holy Ghost will witness to the LDS Church now. Book of Mormon, yes, Joseph Smith, yes but the Church has had the gospel taken from among it. Long Live ZION!
I think that you are projecting your own problems or prejudices onto the thread.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Can one receive a witness from Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn? I don't think so
I'm positive one can receive a witness of Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn in the same way people interpret certain experiences as witness of the Book of Mormon. You gotta try and take it seriously, though.
The generally implied version of spiritual confirmation of anything the LDS Church is promoting goes like this:
Step 1) Pray and Ponder
Did Step 1 result in you agreeing with the Church's teaching?
If Yes, then good job. You have exercised your free will and have independently received confirmation of the wisdom of the Church's teaching. Way to go.
Perhaps, Good Sir, the question ought to be, "How long should one wait to find out Mormonism is false?" As Mr. Richard Packham might wonder:
If somebody should come around to you and say, very seriously, that:
God has been talking personally to him; and
he has an important message for YOU from GOD (even though you know that God has your address and phone number and could easily give you the message himself); and
the message is that God wants you to do whatever this guy says;
which includes giving this guy lots of money, time and energy to help him; and
if you do this, wonderful things will happen to you, but mostly after you're dead; and
God has told him all kinds of important stuff (but not how to cure AIDS, or cancer, or the common cold; or how to pick a stock that will double in a year; or how to pay off the national debt); and
It's OK for him to be married to 30 or 40 women at the same time (but it's not OK for YOU); and
You're not supposed to ask him any questions, but just trust him; and
If you do everything he says, he'll tell you the secret password and handshake that will get you into Heaven; and
Then, after you die and go to Heaven, you will organize and rule your own world and billions of your own spirit children (even though right now you can't even organize your own desk top, you hire somebody else to prepare your tax return and repair your carburetor, you have absolutely no interest in astronomy, quantum physics or advanced math, and you can't control the three kids you have);
If somebody tells you all this,
SHOULDN'T YOU BE A LITTLE BIT SUSPICIOUS? Chances are pretty good that he is either a lunatic or a fraud, AND YOU SHOULD RUN LIKE HELL!
But this is Joseph Smith's story, in a nutshell.
I think a simple moment of reflection will produce the appropriate answer.
Very Respectfully,
Doctor CamNC4Me
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Nightlion wrote: How does the LDS Church screw over its members? Let me count the ways.
1. You are allowed membership without bringing forth and acceptable sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spiirit..........fail to be wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. 2. Allowed to partake of the emblems of the sacrament unworthily. ( only those who accomplish #1. are worthy) ..................come under the condemnation of the Father. 3 Nephi 18 3. Allowed to enter into the House of the Lord (at least when it used to really be that) in an unclean state for paying money and sustaining those who by graft open all the doors for you..................will suffer the plagues promised unto those who blaspheme by pretending to know the name of the Lord when they failed at #1 and do not know him. D&C 112 4. Blinded by the priestcrafts of men to take your ease and just do the best you can and waste an entire life when you could have gotten it right if you only knew.
These are the major defects of the past LDS Church, now of course it is dying along with Babylon that is on its way out. I do not think that the Holy Ghost will witness to the LDS Church now. Book of Mormon, yes, Joseph Smith, yes but the Church has had the gospel taken from among it. Long Live ZION!
I think that you are projecting your own problems or prejudices onto the thread.
Not so much. I rightly spun off another comment. That is the manner of discussion. You cry foul when you got nothing to put up.