Why did Nephi not write on scrolls, papyri etc.

[_karl61]

I'm trying to get through an article written by Hugh Nibley titled The Stick of Judah in his book The Prophetic Book of Mormon. I think I need to pay a tutor - maybe a Rabbi to go through each page with me. I have problems with the way he writes " This is obvious" ; " We need not establish". He also gives foot notes and when I look at the back it is a reference to some other work that he has done.

I do wonder why Nephi did not just write in Hebrew on Scrolls. This seems like a lot easier than carving Reformed Egyptian on metal plates. But then it wouldn't matter because Joseph could not read Hebrew when he translated the Book of Mormon. He later tried to learn it.

I don't know why I can't move on with my life. I can't let this go. Mercy cannot rob justice.

[_harmony]

I'm trying to get through an article written by Hugh Nibley titled The Stick of Judah in his book The Prophetic Book of Mormon. I think I need to pay a tutor - maybe a Rabi to go through each page with me. I have problems with the way he writes " This is obvious" ; " We need not establish". He also gives foot notes and when I look at the back it is a reference to some other work that he has done.

You are to be commended for trying to decipher Nibley.

I do wonder why Nephi did not just write in Hebrew on Scrolls. This seems like a lot easier than carving Reformed Egyptian on metal plates.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are the reason. Scrolls disintegrate unless something extraordinary is done to preserve them; metal doesn't.

But then it wouldn't matter because Joseph could not read Hebrew when he translated the Book of Mormon. He later tried to learn it.

The language of the plates obviously was unimportant.

I don't know why I can't move on with my life. I can't let this go.

Puzzles.

Mercy cannot rob justice.

God will not be mocked.

[_karl61]

Thanks Harmony for your comments. I guess that is life in the lone and dreary world. The chapter is on Ezekiel 37 15-21. I was told in my early years that this had to do with the Book of Mormon. But it is very likely that Ezekiel 37 had not even been written when Nephi left in 600 bc. How was he following directions from something that had not even been written yet. Ezekiel was a priest in captivity.

I look at it and see the Israel of 500 BC to say 50 AD. I can't remember where I saw it but some writer in the Hebrew Bible writes that the ancient Israel will never go through anything like Babylon again but they go through worse with Rome. Some see the modern Israel in Ezekiel 37. Its a puzzel.

With Nibley: I am trying to follow him but I sense (but can't follow it logically yet) that he takes one off to areas that diverts one from the subject he is trying to write about.


also, a scroll written in 400 AD put in a jar and dug up in 1800 AD would have survived fine. Reportedly, Egyptian papyri can be thousands of years old and still remain intact so 1400 hundred years is really no problem especially if God have you a little chemistry insight how to do it correctly.

[_Gazelam]

Karl,

also, a scroll written in 400 AD put in a jar and dug up in 1800 AD would have survived fine. Reportedly, Egyptian papyri can be thousands of years old and still remain intact so 1400 hundred years is really no problem especially if God have you a little chemistry insight how to do it correctly.

There is a big difference in burying a jar in a desert and burying a jar in a Jungle. The Jungle consumes everything. You can be standing on top of a Temple in South America and not know it.

As a sidenote: The original papers that the Book of Mormon was translated on, meaning the scraps of paper Joseph and Oliver used, were sealed into a led box and buryed in the foundation of the Nauvoo hotel. ( Going from memory here, so need a reference check). This box was found by Mr Bidaman. Sarah kimball recounts the condition of the papers:

Last year I visited friends in the States of New York, Ohio, Michigan, and the northern part of Illinois. On my way home I went down from Burlington to see the old landmarks in and around Nauvoo. I arrived there on the 7th of September. After visiting what was once our family home, and the place where the beautiful Nauvoo Temple once stood, I rode through Parley, Mulholland and Main streets, and felt like weeping over the desolation.

I asked the lady friend with whom I was riding to call with me on Mr. Bidaman, a former acquaintance; after learning where I was from, he recognized me and seemed pleased. We talked a little of times that were, and of persons gone. He made inquiries about Salt Lake City and its inhabitants. I referred to his home which is a temporary four-room building on the southwest corner of the foundation laid for the Nauvoo House. I asked why the heavy and extensive foundations around him were being torn up. He replied, that he had bought the premises, and the rock was torn up to sell, as he was poor and otherwise would not have been able to build.

I said, I am interested in this foundation because I remember there were treasures deposited under the chief corner-stone. He said, yes, I took up the stone box and sold it to Mr. — (I do not remember the name.) It had been so long exposed to the wet and weather that its contents were nearly ruined. I gave the coin to Joe (Joseph [III]) and told him he could have the pile of paper. He said it was the manuscript of the Book of Mormon; but it was so much injured that he did not care for it.

While we were talking Mr. Bidaman’s wife brought a large pasteboard box and placed it on my lap. It contained a stack of faded and fast decaying paper. The bottom layers for several inches were uniform in size. They seemed to me larger than common foolscap. The paper was coarse in texture, and had the appearance of having lain a long time in water, as the ink seemed almost entirely soaked into the paper. When I handled it, it would fall to pieces. I could only read a few words here and there, just enough to learn that it was the language of the Book of Mormon.

Above this were some sheets of finer texture folded and sewed together. This was better preserved and more easily read. I held it up and said, “Mr. B., how much for this relic?” He said, “Nothing from you; you are welcome to anything you like from this box.” I appreciated the kindness, took the leaves that were folded and sewed together, also took two fragments of the Times and Seasons, published by Don Carlos Smith. I send with this a fragment dated January, 1840, for your acceptance, containing the pathetic lamentation of P.P. Pratt, while chained in prison.

Nephi may very well have written on papyrus or vellum, but we would not know it as those things are not likely to have survived over the years for the reasons stated above. Nibleys writings are fantastic to study. I haven't bought the book you listed yet or I would comment further.

[_zzyzx]

"Scrolls disintegrate unless something extraordinary is done to preserve them; metal doesn't."

Metal disintegrates and degrades depending on what type it is. Gold last. Platinum lasts. Iron, steel and many others disintegrate and disapper completely. This explains the lack of all the fine steel from the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations.

[_Eric]

Nibleys writings are fantastic to study. I haven't bought the book you listed yet or I would comment further.

Personal question, Gaz:

What do you think about Nibley sexually abusing his daughter? Do you find it problematic or irrelevant to his scholarly endeavors?

[_dblagent007]

Nibleys writings are fantastic to study. I haven't bought the book you listed yet or I would comment further.

Personal question, Gaz:

What do you think about Nibley sexually abusing his daughter? Do you find it problematic or irrelevant to his scholarly endeavors?

I think an honest assessment of the situation will lead most people to conclude that Martha's allegations are baloney.

[_Eric]

I think an honest assessment of the situation will lead most people to conclude that Martha's allegations are baloney.

Let me guess... there are two sides to this story and no one here has any right or duty to judge?

I'm very interested in your honest assessment, if you have one.

[_Gazelam]

Eric,

Personal question, Gaz:

What do you think about Nibley sexually abusing his daughter?

I think she lied about the whole thing. She also stated that the footnotes he put in his books were made up, but anyone rifling through the library at BYU can find his notes in the margins of those everywhere.

Both her mother and all seven of her siblings called her a liar and that there was no molestation. His fellow scholars also defended his academics.

Her claims reflect poorly on her, not her father.

From the Washington Post article:

In "Leaving the Saints," Beck says that she suffered for years from anorexia, anger and despair, and had frequent suicidal impulses. When she and her former husband, John C. Beck, were teaching at Brigham Young in the 1990s, she believed that church authorities stalked her, tapped her phone and threatened her.

One day, in her late twenties, Beck writes, her brain "seemed to erupt like a volcano" and she suddenly had a memory of her father abusing her in her bed when she was 5. She subsequently remembered other abuse that she said lasted until she was 8. In an interview, she said these memories were the reason for her unhappiness and mental problems.

She is obviously full of it. She also sounds like she needs alot of help from some trained proffesionals. Maybe some long term psychotic drugs. If she were still in the church perhaps a blessing. At the very least our prayers for a correct mental state.

Also from the Washington Post article:

Beck writes that she was in the frozen-foods aisle of a grocery store when a scholar in a tweed coat, whom she does not name, came up to her. He told her that Nibley's 15 history books were fictional, and that 90 percent of his footnotes were made up. On hearing this charge, she says, "I felt noticeably, physically stronger."

In an interview, Beck said the charges against her father's scholarship came from the man in the grocery store, and "not as a result of my own investigation." She cited articles by historians, including other Mormons, criticizing one of Nibley's books.

One of the historians Beck cited, Kent P. Jackson of Brigham Young, said he has studied Nibley's work and challenged some of his conclusions. "But I never found the slightest hint of falsification or making things up," Jackson said.

This poor woman is clearly deranged.

Here is a link to the article. The author from the paper seems to side with those who say she is full of it: Link

[_zzyzx]

"This poor woman is clearly deranged."

The real question is... was Joseph Smith?