LDS Security Detains Affectionate (Gay) Couple on Plaza

[_Jonah]

don't worry. In 20 years or so, this incident never happened. In fact, in 20 years or so, the LDS church will have revised their history, and claim that they never discriminated against gays and never opposed gay marriage. The idea that gay men were once not allowed to walk on church property while holding hands and showing affection will be an anti-mormon lie.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Just yesterday the missionaries stopped by my place. The temple was one of the topics we discussed. One missionary actually said that enacting slitting my throat and disembowling myself was never part of the ceremony but instead was "anti-Mormon rhetoric". I said "That is interesting because I clearly remember performing such "rhetoric" upon myself." Poor kid.

He did acknowlege that I most likely had my naked body touched/annointed with oil by a stranger. I guess not enough time has passed on that one.

[_DarkHelmet]

physical attraction (and especially public displays of such) is inappropriate in certain circumstances.

I suppose it depends on the culture. I would say having sex in public is inappropriate. Making out in public is also inappropriate. Grabbing boobs or crotches in public is inappropriate (my wife told me so when I did it to her.) Holding hands, putting an arm around one another, and giving a kiss on the cheek is not inappropriate behavior in public. A gay couple doing this in public has not been inappropriate for many, many years in most areas of the country not run by a church. Of course it does not surprise me that the Mormon church would forbid any signs of homosexuals on their property.

[_asbestosman]

My bad. I said physical attraction is inappropriate in certain circumstances. I should have said it is wicked, vile, perverted, and immoral.

Fornication is still wrong even if it's legal and done behind closed doors among consenting adults.

[_moksha]

I recommend electroshock therapy to cure your disgusting perversion.

I think they tried this at BYU in the 70's but but it wasn't effective and therefore dropped.

However, the subjects did develop a perverse love for classical music and a bit of the old ultra-violence.

[_The Nehor]

I recommend electroshock therapy to cure your disgusting perversion.

I think they tried this at BYU in the 70's but but it wasn't effective and therefore dropped.

Wow, it is amazing that some members still think "zapping them" is the answer. Just wow.

I think it wasn't effective because we didn't combine it with psychotropic drugs, non-electroshock aversion therapy, torture, and forced Monty Python viewing.

[_JohnStuartMill]

My bad. I said physical attraction is inappropriate in certain circumstances. I should have said it is wicked, vile, perverted, and immoral.

Mere physical attraction is immoral now? And this is so even considering that people are gay by nature (i.e., God made them that way)? What a perverse view of deity to think that God would create something just so he could abhor it. That's not a God I could worship.

Fornication is still wrong even if it's legal and done behind closed doors among consenting adults.

It's also a hell of a lot of fun. Three cheers for fornication! Yay!

[_JohnStuartMill]

Well, I won't be one of those oldtimers in the Church. I'll have my name removed and stop coming.

I'd run out get an insurance policy against zombies, orcs, and Vogons since I consider all those things much more likely than that God is as wicked and deluded as mankind. If He is, then He's managed to pull the wool over my eyes so effectively that I won't be able to trust my brain, my senses, or anyone or anything else.

This wool-pulling happens all the time. Why do you think you're so immune from the sickness that afflicts Jehovah's Witnesses?

By the way, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that God, if he exists, is a wicked being. If you take that view that God can do anything except what is logically impossible, or that would take away human agency, then God MUST be evil, by human standards (and if human standards don't apply to God, then it's impossible to say that he's "all-good", or maximally so). Remember the Asian tsunami? There wouldn't have been any problem with God simply making that not happen: it wouldn't have been logically impossible, and it wouldn't have interfered with human agency. But we all know that God went ahead and let the tsunami happen anyway. Hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths are on God's hands, and you want to worship him?

Personal sidenote: the Asian tsunami was one of the biggest blows to my Mormon faith. President Hinckley was on Larry King a day or two before it happened, and although he was the mouthpiece of the Lord at the time, he didn't even hint at a warning for Southeast Asia. Apparently the destruction of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives was not a big deal to our loving God compared to the dire danger of boys kissing each other. The parsimony of the "old opinionated white guys pontificating" explanation of revelation became pretty apparent to me after that.

(This is the part where the Mormon usually backpedals into the position "we don't know what reasons God had for letting unfortunate event X from happening". This answer is the epitome of lame, and I can't imagine that anyone, even the people who say it, find it reassuring. You're better than that, asbestosman. Don't waste your time and mine.)

[_asbestosman]

Mere physical attraction is immoral now? And this is so even considering that people are gay by nature (i.e., God made them that way)?

It is if you dwell on it. Jesus mentioned something about it in the sermon on the mount--don't look on a woman to lust after her because it's adultery in your heart.

[_asbestosman]

Don't waste your time and mine.

Well, if you insist. I consider this to be more of a diversion so as long as I'm entertained I don't consider it to be a waste of my time--at least no more so than playing Sudoku or reading Douglas Adams.

for what it's worth, the problem of evil doesn't bother me--not even when I've had my greatest doubts. Maybe I lack empathy. I do seem to see the world very differently than many people I know. It's not that I don't care about others, but that I care in a different way or something.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Mere physical attraction is immoral now? And this is so even considering that people are gay by nature (i.e., God made them that way)?

It is if you dwell on it. Jesus mentioned something about it in the sermon on the mount--don't look on a woman to lust after her because it's adultery in your heart.

So God created people with romantic feelings who would never be able to express them. That makes perfect sense, actually -- this is the same guy who does the natural disasters, right?