Questions for former and inactive church members(LDS).

[_hobart]

I stopped worrying "what ifs" when I started honestly believing the LDS church wasn't "true." If I get to some judgment, and it does end up being "true" (which I honestly don't expect), I will gracefully acquiesce that I was mistaken. After all, you can't be punished for not believing something...you can't control your beliefs; you're either justified or not in holding them. Galileo was threatened to not hold the belief that the earth revolved around the sun--even though he'd seen evidence with his own eyes through his telescope. Doesn't the LDS church even admit that one is not punished for turning their back on the holy ghost unless they've had an undeniable witness (whatever that means)? The mark of an educated person is to be able to change his beliefs if they are wrong--uneducated people are often those who obstinately hold to something, even if proven wrong, even if presented with contrary evidence. It's presumptuous for any person to "know" without a shadow of a doubt metaphysical claims (unless there's something I don't know about these "spiritual experiences"). In other words, I just can't buy it, and I can't feel guilty about being honest with myself and others about that.

[_gramps]

Intellectually, I was on the way out of the church within one or two quarters of university education, after returning from my mission.

Emotionally, it took me much longer. I was one of those who had an "electric shock" experience after completely reading the Book of Mormon alone by myself at night for weeks and then fasting for one or two days and then getting on my knees to follow Moroni's promise. (I was 19 years of age.)

The next morning, early, while driving to work and wondering why I hadn't received a witness the night before while praying for an answer, the shocks came: one, two, three (decreasing in power each time). I drove to work singing The Spirit of God Like A Fire is Burning.

I don't really know what happened, but the typical Mormon explanation, the one I used myself for years, just didn't cut it after a while.

[_JonasS]

Do you think anybody has had the spirit tell them the Book of Mormon is true? Or do you think people think they are an individual and because everyone else has felt it, it must be true?

[_gramps]

Do you think anybody has had the spirit tell them the Book of Mormon is true? Or do you think people think they are an individual and because everyone else has felt it, it must be true?

If the questions are posed to me, then, to the first: No.

As to the second, I am not sure what you are asking. Sorry.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Pirate, (is that of washing your...?) You said:

... I just don't know what to believe.... I go around in circles mainly because I want to believe.

This may seem simplistic, but maybe it'll help your "circles"?? It is the list thingie...

1. Make a list of what you actually (empiricallly) believe/know. Example: If i don't eat or breath I will die...

2. Make a list of what you don't believe... I don't believe in Santa Claus (that is assuming;)

Then consider the advantage of your hands-on belief/knowledge. Or, the disadvantages, and the pos/neg effects on your life...

Do the same for your don't-believes...

What anchors you? Things empirical or unsubstanciated? Go with your gut. But don't over eat!
Roger
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[_Imwashingmypirate]

I do wash lots of things...

PROBLEM!

I don't know what I believe anymore. This is far more complicated than I would publically like to share.

What about people that have polar beliefs similtaniously? How can they write such a list?

[_Imwashingmypirate]

* God was once a man and fallable.
* God has a physical 3rd Dimentional form.
* Joseph Smith was a good man.
* Joseph Smith has done more for us as humans than any other save Christ alone (what about the guy that invented Facebook?).
* Jesus was perfect.
* The prophets communicate with God. (SS teacher confirmed that for me 2 weeks ago by telling me the WoW were voted on to be a commandment and not as direction from God, thus political organisation as opposed to spiritual truth).
* There is only one way and one path to Heaven.
* HUmans ability to become Gods/Goddesses.
* Man can lead us to glory and ultimate truth.
* more, but its 2.13 and I have church in the morning. then work :(

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Very little has effect on my life. That's my downfall. It wouldn't make much difference whether I stay or leave, other than something will be missing from my life and lot of people will be dissapointed in me.

[_JohnStuartMill]

I left because I had a hard time making sense of the world using a Mormon framework. Too many things were better explained by God's nonexistence.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Pirate, I'll comment, for what it's worth, in bold:

* God was once a man and fallable. An imagining/supposition, no proof...
* God has a physical 3rd Dimentional form. As above...
* Joseph Smith was a good man. Like all men, and women, he had his moments of "good" and otherwise...
* Joseph Smith has done more for us as humans than any other save Christ alone (what about the guy that invented Facebook?). An unprovable PR, indoctrinational statement. Not to be taken seriously--unless one wants to. (The Facebook guy wins, hands down.)
* Jesus was perfect. Unrealistic, mythological, legendary rolemodel...
* The prophets communicate with God. Does God reciprocate? No "God" as imagined. No reciprocation... (SS teacher confirmed that for me 2 weeks ago by telling me the WoW were voted on to be a commandment and not as direction from God, thus political organisation as opposed to spiritual truth). So G told P to plebiscite? Now we're getting real??
* There is only one way and one path to Heaven. Frank Sinatra had a hit with "My Way." So did J.S. in a previous century. Both singing a personal sentimental if-only-it-were-true, love-of-self-song... There is no other-world Heaven. Such sentiment was authored in, and belongs to, the flat-world time...
* HUmans ability to become Gods/Goddesses. The closest anyone comes is by being Creative, as the mythological "God" is presented as being. So, if you have the inclination AND ability--like the Face Book guy, go for it!
* Man can lead us to glory and ultimate truth. There ain't no one else to do it!
* more, but its 2.13 and I have church in the morning. then work : Church? Why? "Work," on the Sabath?!?! (

Maybe a pair of panties that were more comfortable would help???
Roger
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