Maklelan Contemplates A Lawsuit

[_Doctor Scratch]

Over on the aptly named MADboard, the self-admitted forger and blossoming Mopologist called Maklelan has announced that he is considering a "harrassment" lawsuit against a CARM poster:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=42843

I don't know why I waste time on CARM, but I was over there this week and had a discussion with an individual that ended with the following statement:

Is the Bible God's word? To you it is not.. It can't be. Just what is your iron rod that you hold to. What helps you along the path of this life.. All I see the Mormons of CARM saying is that their testimony is all they have.. An emotionally reaction to myths. I say that not so much as the such smallest detail has changed in the message God's to for us.. I have a translation of the original language.. NONE of it is the same as it was in the Hebrew.. Sometimes there isn't even an English word to convey the meaning of what a Hebrew word says. I am not sure that this translation you have picked up off an Atheist site isn't just fine when looked at from the Hebrew.. I don't know because I don't speak or read Hebrew.. Since the English is so different from Hebrew all I have to depend on it that God's message to me is intact.. INERRANT.. What He wants me to know is there and is pure.. If you deny that just admit that you hate God and DIE..

The bold is mine, but the capitalization is not. I take this as a rather serious example of harassment. Irrespective of the fact that it's a loose paraphrase of a scripture, the imperative "DIE" is usually not considered appropriate anywhere. CARM, however, appears to have refused to respond. The comment is still there, and the poster is defending the statement, saying there's nothing wrong with it. Am I wrong in thinking this statement is approaching legal harassment?

Now, this is very interesting. I find myself rather absentmindedly massaging the bridge of my nose as I try to piece together what went on here. After all, it is rather hot and stuff here in my Cassius University office. The first question which naturally arises is: What was Maklelan up to? Is this a form of retaliation on behalf of a key apologist, who was also recently threatened with a lawsuit? On the face of things, it seems that Maklelan was trolling over at CARM, throwing bombs and trying to provoke people into making statements such as the one above.

But, is Maklelan really so naïve when it comes to Mopologetic history? Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists have issued death threats, and/or threats of physical violence---and far more direct and gruesome ones than this. Would Mak really want to be setting a dangerous precedent in this instance? If he's not careful, he could set in motion the utter demise of Mopologetics as we know it. Lucky for him, cooler heads seem to be prevailing (sort of):

I don't know why I waste time on CARM, but I was over there this week and had a discussion with an individual that ended with the following statement:
The bold is mine, but the capitalization is not. I take this as a rather serious example of harassment. Irrespective of the fact that it's a loose paraphrase of a scripture, the imperative "DIE" is usually not considered appropriate anywhere. CARM, however, appears to have refused to respond. The comment is still there, and the poster is defending the statement, saying there's nothing wrong with it. Am I wrong in thinking this statement is approaching legal harassment?

Nope. Just merely pathological.

Wait a sec... What is Bill Hamblin saying here, exactly? Surely this admired BYU prof wasn't mincing his words. Right? Is he saying that Mak is *not* wrong, but is pathological? Or, is he saying that the CARM statement itself was *not* harrassment, but was, instead, pathological? In either case, this seems problematic.

Here is Doctor Peterson's rather predictable response as to whether or not it constitutes harassment:

No, but it's certainly a nice specimen of the climate that exists over there.

Right. Of course not. If it did, the apologists would all be serving lengthy prison sentences, since their verbal assaults, harassing phone calls, and visits to critics' homes and places of business go far, far beyond what this CARM poster did.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Well, Mak may have mistakenly believed that remark was approaching legal harassment, but was he ever actually contemplating a lawsuit? I didn't necessarily get that impression from his comments.

Now to the important question: Does your office at Cassius U have Hello Kitty posters on the wall? If not, I will send you some.



KA

[_bcspace]

If I quoted Romans 1:32 in defense of LDS doctrine against homosexuality, should I be sued?

[_CaliforniaKid]

lol, KA! Mister Scratch sitting in his professorial office with a Hello Kitty poster on the wall behind him = great image.

[_Gadianton]

Wait a sec... What is Bill Hamblin saying here, exactly? Surely this admired BYU prof wasn't mincing his words. Right? Is he saying that Mak is *not* wrong, but is pathological? Or, is he saying that the CARM statement itself was *not* harrassment, but was, instead, pathological? In either case, this seems problematic.

Ouch! Either way, this must be a terrific embarrassment for Mak. I mean, he is a young, junior, going on mid-tier apologist and professor Hamblin, despite his slip-ups regarding the sayings of Buddha and what not, is one of the most senior and distinguished apologists of all time. And here Hamblin clearly gave no credence to such a ridiculous move on the part of Mak, and with a gesture, erased his credibility. Oh, the pain!

I also found it fascinating, reading on, that the Mopologists have such white-hot hatred for the Word of God found in the Bible. Reverand Kishkumen, given your magnificent theological acumen, what do you make of this? I have not seen this kind of bitter disgust over the Lord's holy utterance even in the angry writings of Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins. I, as one who seeks to follow Stendahl's rules, could not bear to say the cruel things about this sacred book of scripture that the apologists are in this very thread. No wonder their status as "Christian" is disputed.

At any rate, this is a prized contribution to the work of our university. I would love to send a bottle of wine your way, but I know, such a gesture may offend your dedication to The Work.

[_maklelan]

Wow. I was using Google to look for a blog that links to my own and on the second page I see "Maklelan Contemplates a Lawsuit." Imagine my surprise, given that I've never contemplated a lawsuit in my life. I hope no one minds if I clarify a little bit.

To begin, I think it's silly that Scratch, in order to be as denigrating and petty as possible, refers to me as a "self-admitted forger." This is an allusion to a discussion wherein I explained I had insight into a specific species of criminal mind because I, prior to joining the church (nine years ago), engaged in a number of illegal activities, among them forgery. I also did a number of different drugs, stole quite a few things, and drank profusely while underage. If it delights Scratch so much to use what he believes to be belittling epithets in his posts, he is welcome to reference all those crimes as well in any future posts directed at me.

Next Scratch states the following:

Maklelan has announced that he is considering a "harrassment" lawsuit against a CARM poster

I was put off a bit since I recall with an intimacy with my own thoughts that far exceeds Scratch's (despite whatever objections he may raise), that I, at no point, actually considered a lawsuit. I checked what I wrote to make sure no such impression was communicated by me. I found none, but check for yourself:

The bold is mine, but the capitalization is not. I take this as a rather serious example of harassment. Irrespective of the fact that it's a loose paraphrase of a scripture, the imperative "DIE" is usually not considered appropriate anywhere. CARM, however, appears to have refused to respond. The comment is still there, and the poster is defending the statement, saying there's nothing wrong with it. Am I wrong in thinking this statement is approaching legal harassment?

Nowhere do I indicate any consideration of a lawsuit, and no such consideration ever crossed my mind. The title of this thread is a clear misrepresentation of my position. Simply put, Scratch is lying to try to make me look like a vindictive and stupid jerk. In truth, I am not well acquainted with the kind of discourse I encountered at CARM. I was put off by the statement and wanted to know if my impression was accurate or not. It was explained to me that it was not, and I learned a little bit about how some people interact on the internet. I'd like to respond to Scratch's questions, though:

What was Maklelan up to?

I was shocked that someone told me in bold print to die. It's never happened to me before, so I asked some people what I should think about it. I think that's pretty clear from my post.

Is this a form of retaliation on behalf of a key apologist, who was also recently threatened with a lawsuit?

I'm not really sure to what you're referring, although it probably has to do with Daniel Peterson. Scratch really seems to hate him, and I seem to recall he was involved in a lawsuit a year or two ago. My post, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with any such situation.

On the face of things, it seems that Maklelan was trolling over at CARM,

I was actually quite involved in the thread, and there were several other threads at the time in which I was involved. If "on the face of things" means, "as far as Scratch was able to gather from my MADB thread," then he's being quite presumptuous. If he did anything more to investigate the situation, then he's being even more presumptuous.

throwing bombs

I was doing no such thing.

and trying to provoke people into making statements such as the one above.

Scratch seems to have a proclivity for reading minds. I was not trying to provoke anyone, and if Scratch had bothered to go find the thread instead of simply inventing the context a priori he would have seen I was being quite calm, quite levelheaded, and far more respectful than anyone was being to me.

But, is Maklelan really so naïve when it comes to Mopologetic history?

I guess I have to admit that I'm guilty of this. I don't really participate in "Mopologetics." I engage discussions I find interesting wherever I may find them, and I comment according to my understanding, which, if Scratch knew anything about me, is not uncommonly in conflict with mainstream LDS ideas.

Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists have issued death threats, and/or threats of physical violence---and far more direct and gruesome ones than this.

No, I don't know anything about that, but if your assessment in the above quote is anything like your assessment of my position in this thread, then I have reason to doubt the accuracy of your statements. Irrespective, I don't see how the actions of others at all bears on my thread.

Would Mak really want to be setting a dangerous precedent in this instance? If he's not careful, he could set in motion the utter demise of Mopologetics as we know it.

And this is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this forum.

Lucky for him, cooler heads seem to be prevailing (sort of):

Yes, lucky for me those "cooler heads" prevented me from breaking a pencil or saying "flip" or whatever other devious scheme I had in mind.

Wait a sec... What is Bill Hamblin saying here, exactly? Surely this admired BYU prof wasn't mincing his words. Right? Is he saying that Mak is *not* wrong, but is pathological? Or, is he saying that the CARM statement itself was *not* harrassment, but was, instead, pathological? In either case, this seems problematic.

I think the statement is quite understandable, and I think it's quite petty for Scratch to feign confusion just to find something to gripe about.

Right. Of course not. If it did, the apologists would all be serving lengthy prison sentences, since their verbal assaults, harassing phone calls, and visits to critics' homes and places of business go far, far beyond what this CARM poster did.

I wonder how it will appear when my pretend almost lawsuit is alluded to far in the future. Perhaps it will be papers being served aggressively to someone in front of their crying children. Maybe I'll be the one making the harassing phone calls and visiting critic's homes.

Scratch, I really couldn't care less about your little crusade against Peterson and the "Mopologists." That's between you and them, but please don't lie about what I've said. I'd ask you to apologize if I thought for a second that you had the integrity, but based on your statements here, I think it would be a huge waste of my time. Feel free to start another thread about how big a doodyhead I am for calling you on your lie. I'm curious to see how devious you could make it sound.

[_maklelan]

Ouch! Either way, this must be a terrific embarrassment for Mak.

Not particularly. Why would it be embarrassing?

I mean, he is a young, junior, going on mid-tier apologist

Oh, how flippantly dismissive, just to let everyone know how beneath you this whole situation is.

and professor Hamblin, despite his slip-ups regarding the sayings of Buddha and what not, is one of the most senior and distinguished apologists of all time. And here Hamblin clearly gave no credence to such a ridiculous move on the part of Mak, and with a gesture, erased his credibility. Oh, the pain!

Huh? What was my "ridiculous move," and how is my "credibility" at all influenced?

I also found it fascinating, reading on, that the Mopologists have such white-hot hatred for the Word of God found in the Bible. Reverand Kishkumen, given your magnificent theological acumen, what do you make of this? I have not seen this kind of bitter disgust over the Lord's holy utterance even in the angry writings of Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins. I, as one who seeks to follow Stendahl's rules, could not bear to say the cruel things about this sacred book of scripture that the apologists are in this very thread. No wonder their status as "Christian" is disputed.

What? The Bible is my career. I harbor no disgust at all, nor have i ever spoken in anger about the Bible.

At any rate, this is a prized contribution to the work of our university. I would love to send a bottle of wine your way, but I know, such a gesture may offend your dedication to The Work.

What is "this," and how is it a contribution to the "work" of your "university"?

[_Gadianton]

Just some feather rufflin', Mak. To be honest, I kind of respect you. If I remember right, you're well on your way to a real graduate degree or maybe in between graduate degrees. The thing is, even though you're a feisty little guy right now, one day you'll be a bona fide senior Mopologist and have all kinds of awe and respect from MAD posters and Internet Mormons elsewhere. Contrast this with Life On A Plate who is neglecting his schooling so he can be a full-time gospel hobbyist. He might be able to squeeze in a FAIR presentation or get lucky one day and score a Review article, but all in all he's already pretty close to hitting the ceiling in his apologetic career. No graduate degree, no church paid plane ticket.

[_Daniel Peterson]

You're wrong, maklelan. You don't know your thinking better than Scratch does. And, anyway, you're lying. And he doesn't need evidence. He'll just make up what he wants. So surrender now.

He's been doing this condescending, malevolent schtick of his against me for over three years now. I know his MO.

And Gadianton is his faithful disciple and lieutenant. "Mini-Scratch," I sometimes call him.

[_maklelan]

Just some feather rufflin', Mak. To be honest, I kind of respect you. If I remember right, you're well on your way to a real graduate degree or maybe in between graduate degrees. The thing is, even though you're a feisty little guy right now, one day you'll be a bona fide senior Mopologist and have all kinds of awe and respect from MAD posters and Internet Mormons elsewhere. Contrast this with Life On A Plate who is neglecting his schooling so he can be a full-time gospel hobbyist. He might be able to squeeze in a FAIR presentation or get lucky one day and score a Review article, but all in all he's already pretty close to hitting the ceiling in his apologetic career. No graduate degree, no church paid plane ticket.

For the record, I am headed to a graduate degree at the University of Oxford, which is a real degree, as far as I have been able to ascertain. I'll let you know early next year where I'll be doing my doctorate degree. BYU is also not on my shortlist of places I want to work in the future (I need better golfing and businesses open past 9 PM), so I'm afraid my trip to Denver to present at a Society of Biblical Literature meeting last year was most likely the last plane ticket of mine anyone associated with the church will ever pay for.