Plaza Incident

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

From the Associated Press:

Matt Aune has said he and his partner, Derek Jones, exchanged a modest kiss at the plaza 11 days ago, but church officials contend their behavior was lewd.

"There was much more involved that a simple kiss of the cheek," Farah said in a statement Friday. "They engaged in passionate kissing, groping, profane and lewd language, and had obviously been using alcohol."

The men have said they were walking home from a nearby concert and cutting through the plaza on their way home.

A police report said they sat down for a kiss and were approached by a pair of church security guards, who asked them to leave because their behavior was "unwanted."

Both were handcuffed and Aune was pinned to the ground.

I do believe this warrants a little more investigation aside from reading a Mormon publicist's press release?

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_Dwight Frye]

Police report on men's plaza kiss released

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

From the police report:

He told me that the Security Guards slammed him
to the ground. I asked him why they did that? He told that him and his
boyfriend Derek had been drinking at the Gallavin Center and they just came
through Main St. He said they sat down and he gave Derek a kiss. That is
when he was contacted by two guys in suits. He said that he did not know
they were Church Security and that he said nobody has the right to tell
them to leave on public grounds. He said once he found out that they were
Church Security, he told them "NO" that he was not going to leave and to
call the Police.

There was no statement made by the security guard reference a "passionate spectacle". He simply stated:

Nickel said that he observed Matt and
Derek kissing and hugging on their property. Nickel told both AP's that he
is with Church Security and that they need to leave their property for the
behavior and that is is unwanted.

It appears the young couple was not aware of the private property issues surrounding Main street and took offense to a private security guard telling them to leave. Whether you want to believe the couple or want to believe the Mormon church, I suppose that is up to you.

I am not so sure many young couples would engage in a "passionate spectacle" on the Main street plaza. Sitting down, putting an arm around the other, and sharing a peck on the cheek seems more reasonable in this instance, especially since the plaza is a "little bit of Paris" in Salt Lake.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_TAK]

Frankly I am surprised there are no securitiy cameras.
That would be end of the story as to who was telling the truth. Unless of course they have already been erased..

[_Some Schmo]

Or perhaps we should accept that the gay men are telling the truth because Mormons hate gay people and therefore must be lying.

Are you saying Mormons don't hate gay people? Is it more a case of not liking their behavior? That would be interesting given the prevalent Mormon attitude communicated that critics hate Mormons rather than Mormonism.

Never mind that the gay men are obviously just as antagonistic toward the church, and happen to have been drunk at the time. They still get the benefit of the doubt.

They are "just as antagonistic toward the church?" You mean, just as antagonistic toward the church as the church is against gay people? (Well, that's revealing.) And you know this... how exactly?

For someone who likes to call others out on making baseless assertions, this is quite a whopper.

And why's that? Because there's an opportunity to denigrate the church, and so objectivity gets thrown out the window.

You know, you strike me as a moderately intelligent guy. It's too bad you're also pretty whiney.

If you can give me another reason to accept their account over that of the security personnel (that is not based on the presupposition that in a conflict the church is always lying) please share it with me.

Well, given you don't know anything about them (except what you've accepted from the church's statement - which means you don't know anything), why not completely reserve judgment? Is it because there's an opportunity to denigrate critics, and so objectivity gets thrown out the window?

[_Doctor Steuss]

[...]
It appears the young couple was not aware of the private property issues surrounding Main street and took offense to a private security guard telling them to leave.
[...]

Affirmation.org reported that Aune stated he was one of the individuals who protested the transfer of the property to the Church in 2003.

I imagine that (unless he wasn't truthful in regards to protesting the land transfer) that he was quite familiar with the issues surrounding the Church Plaza.

[_solomarineris]

Well, the Church released a statement: http://newsroom.LDS.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... a-incident

There has been a good deal of publicity surrounding an incident where two men were cited for trespassing because of belligerent and profane behavior on the Church Plaza, which is an extension of the Salt Lake City Temple grounds and Church headquarters. While this property is owned by the Church, we want it to be a place of beauty and serenity in downtown Salt Lake City for everyone.

As we said earlier on this matter, these men were asked to stop engaging in behavior deemed inappropriate for any couple on the Plaza. There was much more involved than a simple kiss on the cheek. They engaged in passionate kissing, groping, profane and lewd language, and had obviously been using alcohol. They were politely told that the Plaza was not the place for such behavior and asked to stop. When they became belligerent, the two individuals were asked to leave Church property. Church security detained them and Salt Lake City police were called.

There is nothing satisfying in learning that there have been problems for anyone on Church property. We hope the Plaza will continue to be an asset to the community and enjoyed by the many that cross it each day.

Those bigoted LDS morality police.

I wish I was there to ask those retards;
Why are you worried about a couple fags? Why are you building a 3 billion dollar mall? Aren't we are living in last days?
Aren't these last days, to put infidels like me away?
Or perhaps they pretend to believe and create distraction?
What sayest thou?

[_William Schryver]

mak:

A rather naïve and petty accusation.

Her sole stock-in-trade.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

[...]
It appears the young couple was not aware of the private property issues surrounding Main street and took offense to a private security guard telling them to leave.
[...]

Affirmation.org reported that Aune stated he was one of the individuals who protested the transfer of the property to the Church in 2003.

I imagine that (unless he wasn't truthful in regards to protesting the land transfer) that he was quite familiar with the issues surrounding the Church Plaza.

Hello,

That is interesting, Sir. I have to wonder why the security guard, when making an official statement, did not make it a point to note their "passionate spectacle", but only that they were "kissing and hugging" which could be left open to speculation.

Perhaps Mr. Aune made it a point to stop at the plaza and share a hug and a kiss as an antagonistic gesture to a clearly homophobic organization?

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_DarkHelmet]

I think the problem here is many people who are not members of the LDS church, or who have never been members of the LDS church, don't know what morality is because they don't have the gospel in their life. It seems unfair that people get arrested for breaking the rules of the plaza when they don't know what the rules are. If the LDS church is going to allow non-members on the plaza grounds, they need to ensure that they know the rules. Perhaps a sign at every entrance, like they have at parks, would help. The sign could say, "Welcome to the Main Street Plaza. No outward signs of homosexuality is allowed. No swearing. No alcohol. No smoking or drugs. Nobody who has consumed alcohol within the past 2 hours is allowed. Please dress appropriately, and be properly groomed before entering. Act as if the Lord is watching you. If you are gay, no hand-holding or any outward signs of affection. If you are straight, no necking or heavy petting. Security guards are on duty to enforce these rules."