The Mormon Apologist's Modus Operandi

[_StructureCop]

I think there is a lot more to the story, that there was a stronger hold over Martin and some of the others that extorted them to say the things they did. And I think it is found in the book itself, ironically.

This sounds juicy, can you elaborate?

[_AlmaBound]

I think there is a lot more to the story, that there was a stronger hold over Martin and some of the others that extorted them to say the things they did. And I think it is found in the book itself, ironically.

This sounds juicy, can you elaborate?

A little bit - I think that events of the lives of those men are found within the pages of the book: Mormon 1:1 for example, and the story in 1 Nephi, relating to Joseph's life. Others have raised this possibility and I've followed it to some interesting conclusions.

If the book reflects the lives of those men, then Helaman chapter 9 becomes very interesting in light of extorting someone, binding them to an agreement.

The remarkable thing is, by saying it is all true, the culprits are forced to confess the deeds they have committed, though they are given an out - Joseph provides them with a way to protect themselves by putting the story in an ancient setting.

In this way, even the deathbed professions are interesting, especially Cowdery's. He "knew" it was true, and of course he would know such a thing, experientially.

So there you go. Fire away.

[_StructureCop]

In this way, even the deathbed professions are interesting, especially Cowdery's. He "knew" it was true, and of course he would know such a thing, experientially.

So there you go. Fire away.

Wow, that would kind of explain how/why this particular group of witnesses stuck to their "testimony" when the other group had mixed results. I'm going to do some reading and see if I can come up with anything else that would support this.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I think that events of the lives of those men are found within the pages of the book: Mormon 1:1 for example, and the story in 1 Nephi, relating to Joseph's life. Others have raised this possibility and I've followed it to some interesting conclusions.

If the book reflects the lives of those men, then Helaman chapter 9 becomes very interesting in light of extorting someone, binding them to an agreement.

The remarkable thing is, by saying it is all true, the culprits are forced to confess the deeds they have committed, though they are given an out - Joseph provides them with a way to protect themselves by putting the story in an ancient setting.

In this way, even the deathbed professions are interesting, especially Cowdery's. He "knew" it was true, and of course he would know such a thing, experientially.

So there you go. Fire away.

Wow. Fabulous.

Too late by a week for something I just wrote and sent off to press.

Dang.

[_StructureCop]

Wow. Fabulous.

Too late by a week for something I just wrote and sent off to press.

Dang.

Are you serious, or are you just being yourself?

Any time you want to mock a theory that someone just floated, just remember:

[_Daniel Peterson]

Are you serious, or are you just being yourself?

Both. As usual.

[_maklelan]

Numerous accounts also stated that there were engravings on both sides. Gold that can be engraved on both sides has to be of a minimum thickness In order to avoid the “negative” being impressed on the other side of the plate. This would indicate a certain prerequisite thickness. Yet Emma claimed that the pages would “rustle” when the “edges were moved by the thumb”.
How in the world could metal plates that were thick enough for engravings on both side at the same time be thin enough to allow the thumb to flip through them, making them “rustle”?

Actually it doesn't have to be remarkably thick, and it happened a lot back then. Here are some examples:



This Ketef Hinnom scroll has part of Numbers on it. It is about an inch wide and it dates to about 600 BCE. The next one is less than an inch wide and has part of Deuteronomy (in a modified Greek) on it:



Neither scroll (they were both rolled up) has writing on the other side, but nor do they have the impressions of the letters coming through. Both are thin enough for sheets of them to rustle under someone's thumbs when stacked together in pages. The next image is of an Etruscan book of six gold pages:



It's just over two inches in length. The pages would rustle if someone rubbed them together between their thumb and index finger.

[_beastie]

Neither scroll (they were both rolled up) has writing on the other side, but nor do they have the impressions of the letters coming through. Both are thin enough for sheets of them to rustle under someone's thumbs when stacked together in pages. The next image is of an Etruscan book of six gold pages:

The fact that a metal page is thick enough to have writing on one side without making an impression on the opposite side does not mean that there could be writing on both sides without any problems.

by the way, can you verify this:

Neither scroll (they were both rolled up) has writing on the other side, but nor do they have the impressions of the letters coming through.

[_StructureCop]

Hey mak --

Any measurement on the thickness? Is it the same for all of them?

[_beastie]

The article that "he who shall not be named" linked deals mainly with the eight witnesses. My previous comment was meant to be about the three witnesses.

I think it may be possible that a prop of some sort was constructed at some point. But the angel with the plates sounds visionary to me.