LDS Security Detains Affectionate (Gay) Couple on Plaza

[_asbestosman]

So God created people with romantic feelings who would never be able to express them.

This is the same Being who creates people with various conditions: schizophrenia for example. Some even learn to deal with (and in that sense, conquer) their conditions: John Nash for example.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Don't waste your time and mine.

Well, if you insist. I consider this to be more of a diversion so as long as I'm entertained I don't consider it to be a waste of my time--at least no more so than playing Sudoku or reading Douglas Adams.

I suspect you'd be made at me for reading you as cavalier about the big questions here, but I don't have any other explanation here.

for what it's worth, the problem of evil doesn't bother me--not even when I've had my greatest doubts. Maybe I lack empathy. I do seem to see the world very differently than many people I know. It's not that I don't care about others, but that I care in a different way or something.

Then it seems like you'd have no problem with my saying that the proposition "God is good" is silly. Right?

[_asbestosman]

I suspect you'd be made at me for reading you as cavalier about the big questions here, but I don't have any other explanation here.

There are times when it's inappropriate to give trite responses which, I concede I probably do from time to time especially in issues that don't affect me the way they do others.

Then it seems like you'd have no problem with my saying that the proposition "God is good" is silly. Right?

I don't consider it silly. I just don't have any satisfying answers for others who are bothered by the problem of evil.

But, for starters I'm not sure how much power God really has. I do believe that God is bound by more than just the rules of agency, and logic. He is bound by justice and mercy for one. I believe He may be bound by some other laws too and that in some sense there is something faceless that is higher than God--a sort of laws of physics for God which He did not create and to which He is bound.

I could be wrong about that too. In any case such a thing isn't particularly satisfying to those who are serious about the problem of evil.

[_Morrissey]

That you would act like the bigot and a homophobe you are. You did not disappoint.

.

Oh, and I deny the charge of bigotry and homophobia.

Denial noted . . . and rejected. You ARE a bigot and homophobe.

Sorry.

[_Morrissey]

I'd have more sympathy if LDS Inc. had not used a bait and switch to purchase the property under the pretext that it would be a public resources--"a little bit of Paris"--only to turn it into its own private religious preserve, complete with morality police.

Bait and switch? I thought it was obvious that the church wanted it in order to stop protesters from disrupting wedding photos, etc. What, is the church supposed to play favorites in the name of political correctness by allowing gays to protest and make a scene while prohibiting religious zealots from doing the same?

The only issue here might be that of hypocrisy in saying that we treat homosexual the same as heterosexuals with regard to chastity. I believe we do--we would still condemn outward signs of inappropriate physical attraction (such as if it were adulterous or incestuous). Unfortunately for homosexuals, this is more apparent than it is for other cases.

Now, if we lived in a different culture where holding hands and kissing was more common between male friends/relatives without physical attraction, then perhaps homosexuals would go unnoticed too. It's not that kisses are inherently wrong, but rather that physical attraction (and especially public displays of such) is inappropriate in certain circumstances.

No, that's not what I mean. I am referring to the bait and switch LDS Inc. used to get the SLC to sell it the property in question. Present it publicly as a wonderful public resource-the phrase used was 'little bit of Paris'-and and soon as it secured ownership of the property, proceed to turn it into a private religious preserve, complete with its own morality police.

[_Pokatator]

One thing over this whole issue I just can't believe is that the church doesn't have a surveillance video of this incident. Every KMart, WalMart in the world has a video of activities in their parking lots and everywhere else. So, why doesn't the church do the same for this problematic and controversially acquired piece of real estate? I believe they do.

I believe a video exists.

[_Analytics]

One thing over this whole issue I just can't believe is that the church doesn't have a surveillance video of this incident. Every KMart, WalMart in the world has a video of activities in their parking lots and everywhere else. So, why doesn't the church do the same for this problematic and controversially acquired piece of real estate? I believe they do.

I believe a video exists.

I hate buying into conspiracy theories, but I think you are right.

[_maklelan]

One thing over this whole issue I just can't believe is that the church doesn't have a surveillance video of this incident. Every KMart, WalMart in the world has a video of activities in their parking lots and everywhere else. So, why doesn't the church do the same for this problematic and controversially acquired piece of real estate? I believe they do.

I believe a video exists.

The church provided the prosecution with surveillance video, but the "kiss" is not visible on the tape. It does show the couple getting in an altercation with the security personnel.

[_maklelan]

I hate buying into conspiracy theories, but I think you are right.

No, there's no conspiracy, he just wasn't paying much attention.

[_Pokatator]

I hate buying into conspiracy theories, but I think you are right.

No, there's no conspiracy, he just wasn't paying much attention.

Mak,

I have been away from the board for a while. I read this entire thread last night and thought it over. I read every link and I find no mention anywhere of a surveillance video or mention of "the church providing the prosecution with a surveillance video".

I skimmed it again just now, maybe I have missed something but I am paying attention. I find no information of a video mentioned. Perhaps you have some inside information from l-skinny or some other source that you would like to share with us. You seem to imply that you have seen the video?

Pok