The Mormon Apologist's Modus Operandi

[_Calculus Crusader]

Joseph Smith performed manual labor ... only when absolutely necessary.

Unlike his contemporaries, who cleared fields and quarried stone for the sheer relaxation of it, after a long day sitting in front of a computer at the office?

Unlike Smith, his contemporaries were not able to get out of any work through chicanery. (Excepting those who, like Smith, were charlatans.)

Did Joseph Smith commission himself a lieutenant general?

Is that your final answer?

No. Smith's community of dupes elected him lieutenant general (not unlike Kim Jong-il was elected Chairman of the National Defense Commission and Supreme Commander of the Korean People's Army) and the election was ratified with a commission from the Governor of Illinois, who wanted Mormon votes.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Which, despite your manifest reluctance and stripped of your squirming and obfuscation and juvenile sneers, means that the governor of Illinois gave Joseph Smith his commission as lieutenant general.

QED.

[_Yoda]

How many trees have you chopped down and hauled? How much stone have you quarried? How much of this did you do with manual tools -- that is to say, with neither electric- nor gasoline-powered equipment?

Harmony? CC? Tell us of your strong commitment to truly manual labor. Boast of your brawny arms, your backbreaking dawn-to-dusk work. Point the finger of scorn at the shiftless Joseph Smith yet again.

Harmony worked on a farm for years. She still lives in a farming community even though she went back to school and received her degree in Counseling and Psychology when her children were older.

She is now a practicing counselor, but, I have no doubt that Harm can, and likely will, give you an earful regarding her experience with manual labor. :)

[_Daniel Peterson]

No doubt.

But I do doubt that she did enough manual labor to put her into a position from which she can plausibly declare Joseph Smith lazy.

I've now demonstrated that Joseph's youth and young adulthood were largely devoted to very hard manual labor, and that he was chopping down trees, pulling up stumps, and quarrying stone until at least 1833 -- and possibly at least a year to three years later. (The Church had been established in the spring of 1830.) That puts him somewhere between 28 and 31 years old. He only lived to be 38.

Harmony claimed that Joseph "wasn't required to work with his hands," that he "worked only a handful of days all the days of his life."

This is a demonstrably false statement.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Which, despite your manifest reluctance and stripped of your squirming and obfuscation and juvenile sneers, means that the governor of Illinois gave Joseph Smith his commission as lieutenant general.

QED.

Yes, but Smith was still a charlatan who was able to get out of work through his chicanery, either directly or indirectly. That Smith still worked with his hands after he started his career as a conman does not counter that fact, your pedantry notwithstanding.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Yes, but Smith was still a charlatan who was able to get out of work through his chicanery, either directly or indirectly. That Smith still worked with his hands after he started his career as a conman does not counter that fact, your pedantry notwithstanding.

Pedantry, here, being defined -- rather eccentrically, I must say -- as "reference to actual historical facts."

In reality, your unsubstantiated assertions have been seriously weakened if not altogether destroyed -- there wasn't much to them in the first place -- by the historical facts that I've offered up.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Yes, but Smith was still a charlatan who was able to get out of work through his chicanery, either directly or indirectly. That Smith still worked with his hands after he started his career as a conman does not counter that fact, your pedantry notwithstanding.

Pedantry, here, being defined as "reference to actual historical facts."

In fact, your unsubstantiated assertions have been seriously weakened if not altogether destroyed -- there wasn't much to them in the first place -- but the historical facts that I've offered up.

Setting aside his religious chicanery for the moment, do you dispute that your "prophet" hired himself out as a treasure-seeker and was convicted as such? Joseph Smith conned people to get out of honest work. That he still had to work after he turned conman does not change that fact.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Setting aside his religious chicanery for the moment

LOL. Do we also get to set aside your puerile belligerence?

No. I thought not.

do you dispute that your "prophet" hired himself out as a treasure-seeker and was convicted as such?

I don't deny that he hired himself out as a treasure-seeker in his earlier years, but I'm curious about his conviction. Could you give me the details on that?

Joseph Smith conned people to get out of honest work.

The affidavits against him -- which are, as noted above, extremely problematic -- testified that the pits that he and his treasure crew had excavated during midnight treasure quests were visible all over New York.

You have two choices, basically: Either those affidavits were exaggerating or outright lying (which is my own suspicion), or Joseph was extremely, indeed almost superhumanly, hard-working. To have spent the day pulling up tree stumps, excavating wells, building fences, and plowing fields, and then to stay up all night, every night, excavating pits across western New York . . . why, that might begin to tire even harmony out a bit.

That he still had to work after he turned conman [sic] does not change that fact.

But it's irrelevant to the claim that you first made here -- "Joseph Smith performed manual labor until he discovered the attractive alternative of conning people" (emphasis added) -- and from which you're now, amidst a cloud of squirted squid ink that you hope will distract observers, seeking to distance yourself.

[_Calculus Crusader]

LOL. Do we also get to set aside your puerile belligerence?

No. I thought not.

I am similarly belligerent towards the followers of Admiral Hubbard and Savior-Emperor Moon.

I don't deny that he hired himself out as a treasure-seeker in his earlier years, but I'm curious about his conviction. Could you give me the details on that?

1826 Bill of Justice Albert Neely

The affidavits against him -- which are, as noted above, extremely problematic -- testified that the pits that he and his treasure crew had excavated during midnight treasure quests were visible all over New York.

You have two choices, basically: Either those affidavits were exaggerating or outright lying (which is my own suspicion), or Joseph was extremely, indeed almost superhumanly, hard-working. To have spent the day pulling up tree stumps, excavating wells, building fences, and plowing fields, and then to stay up all night, every night, excavating pits across western New York . . . why, that might begin to tire even harmony out a bit.

I don't recall seeing any exaggerations in the Affidavit of Isaac Hale.

But it's irrelevant to the claim that you first made here -- "Joseph Smith performed manual labor until he discovered the attractive alternative of conning people" (emphasis added) -- and from which you're now, amidst a cloud of squirted squid ink that you hope will distract observers, seeking to distance yourself.

I amended that statement, although it was fine for non-pedantic readers. Unlike harmony, I am satisfied that Joseph Smith engaged in manual labor but he was also able to get out of it through his cons.

Incidentally, conman is acceptable.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I'm curious about his conviction. Could you give me the details on that?

1826 Bill of Justice Albert Neely

Gordon A. Madsen, "Joseph Smith's 1826 Trial: The Legal Setting" (1990), BYU Studies 30:2:91.

http://byustudies.BYU.edu/Features/Jose ... icles.aspx

Incidentally, conman is acceptable.

LOL. Airball.