To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

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_maklelan
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _maklelan »

EAllusion wrote:No, why?
I hear that's what everyone keeps implying about you. The voices, they're everywhere. Cruel people.[/quote]

I haven't seen any such implications. Is this through private messages, or can you direct me to where these claims are being made?

EAllusion wrote:By the way, Gad was just mocking a common style of post DCP writes. It was sarcasm. He wasn't seriously saying he was going to play croquet. Calling him a liar shows you can't follow some pretty basic context to figure out the meaning of a post. Not that you aren't an incredibly intelligent person who is in no way related to people who mine coal in West Virginia, but that's pretty dense captain grammar.


I was born in West Virginia, if that's what these rumors are alluding to. I grew up on a farm by the Shenandoah river in a large religious commune. Of the seven people in my immediate family, four have postgraduate degrees, and three are pursuing them. Being raised in West Virginia in no way means someone is stupid.
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_EAllusion
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _EAllusion »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Oh, I know what you intended, EA. But, of course, it really won't work to suggest that I want everyone to know that I lead an "envious" life.


Yeah, it would have to be a showing of insecurity you pain to reveal. Oh well, I know that was a product of fast typing that infects just about every other post I write. I'm not one for blindspots about my faults, nor am I particularly worried about the occasional grammar and spelling errors. I mean, it's not like I go around repeatedly accusing people of liars because I can't understand what they are saying.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:I'm not quite sure why Scratch is so vain about his supposedly edgy and "cool" reading, since he routinely reads so poorly:

Doctor Scratch wrote:Notice, too, that it is not the LDS Cracroft who's actually recommending Sophie's Choice; rather, he's using a list written by Anna Quindlen---thus placing the "burden," as it were, on Quindlen (she also included Underworld I wonder if Cracroft would have been willing to name that title all by his lonesome?).

No, folks, he's not using a list written by Anna Quindlen. That's a different list. He's using a list from the Orem Public Library, presumably staffed largely if not entirely by Mormons, and he declares that "It is as good a list as any to begin a reading list for the rest of 2001."


Lol. No, no: I'm right on this one, Dr. Peterson. *Both* lists are by Quindlen (save the very last one, and the first one, by Somerset Maugham). Here, check it out, cut-and-pasted straight from the article:

Lists abound: Here is a list, recently published by Orem, Utah Public Library:

Orem Library's Best

"Ten big, thick wonderful books as recommended by Anna Quindlen":


I guess you're the one who botched the reading this time around. What an embarrassing mistake!

Doctor Scratch wrote:What's funny is that there seems to be some doubt that even this is appropriate for TBM consumption.

By which Scratch seeks to hide the fact that, according to this retired BYU English professor, this former mission president, this former chairman of the BYU English department, this former stake president, this former dean of the BYU College of Humanities, writing in the very LDS Meridian Magazine, it's quite all right.


Yes; of course it's "all right" to read The Canterbury Tales. Who on earth would ever doubt that it is? The Brethren, maybe? Or folks who are accustomed to obeying them?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_EAllusion
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _EAllusion »

maklelan wrote:
he's just mocking Dan Peterson?


Yes.
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _EAllusion »

maklelan wrote:I haven't seen any such implications. Is this through private messages, or can you direct me to where these claims are being made?


I've seen you on multiple occasions proclaim yourself to be no dumb hillbilly when others were challenging your thinking. I find it strangely defensive. I was poking fun at you.
I was born in West Virginia, if that's what these rumors are alluding to. I grew up on a farm by the Shenandoah river in a large religious commune. Of the seven people in my immediate family, four have postgraduate degrees, and three are pursuing them. Being raised in West Virginia in no way means someone is stupid.
[/quote]

So you are from around rural Appalachia. I guess that partially explains the hillbilly business. Of course being raised in W. Virginia doesn't make someone stupid. I'd recommend dropping the, "I'm no dumb hillbilly" routine when someone says they think you are wrong about something.
_marg

Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _marg »

maklelan wrote:
I was born in West Virginia, if that's what these rumors are alluding to. I grew up on a farm by the Shenandoah river in a large religious commune. Of the seven people in my immediate family, four have postgraduate degrees, and three are pursuing them. Being raised in West Virginia in no way means someone is stupid.


It seems to me that that it would be unusual for people from a commune to go to university. Was this a Mormon commune? How many families were part of it? Was it polygamous? Who paid for the university educations? Was it mainly your siblings who went to university or were you and your siblings typical of others in your age group in the commune?
_maklelan
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _maklelan »

EAllusion wrote:I've seen you on multiple occasions proclaim yourself to be no dumb hillbilly when others were challenging your thinking. I find it strangely defensive. I was poking fun at you.


Oh, well played.

EAllusion wrote:So you are from around rural Appalachia.


Yeah, but I haven't lived there for over 20 years. You asked if I currently lived in rural Appalachia.

EAllusion wrote:I guess that partially explains the hillbilly business. Of course being raised in W. Virginia doesn't make someone stupid. I'd recommend dropping the, "I'm no dumb hillbilly" routine when someone says they think you are wrong about something.


I didn't say that because someone said I was wrong about something. I said that because they acted like I wasn't smart enough to understand their point because I disagreed. That person also happens to have been making up facts about a field in which I have worked for years, namely Semitic epigraphy.
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_karl61
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _karl61 »

I think Maklelan needs my meds more than I need my meds.
I want to fly!
_maklelan
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _maklelan »

karl61 wrote:I think Maklelan needs my meds more than I need my meds.


Zing!
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_Daniel Peterson
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Re: To what extent are TBM/Apologist tastes Brethren-directed?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Lol. No, no: I'm right on this one, Dr. Peterson. *Both* lists are by Quindlen (save the very last one, and the first one, by Somerset Maugham). Here, check it out, cut-and-pasted straight from the article:

Lists abound: Here is a list, recently published by Orem, Utah Public Library:

Orem Library's Best

"Ten big, thick wonderful books as recommended by Anna Quindlen":

I guess you're the one who botched the reading this time around. What an embarrassing mistake!

Oh, let me tell you: I'm mortified beyond words.

But let's see:

Lists abound: Here is a list, recently published by Orem, Utah Public Library:

Orem Library's Best

"Ten big, thick wonderful books as recommended by Anna Quindlen":

[1] Gone With the Wind, Margaret Mitchell;

[2] Vanity Fair, William Makepeace Thackeray [one of my all-time favorites]

[3] East of Eden, John Steinbeck

[4] The Forsyte Saga, John Galsworthy

[5] Buddenbrooks, Thomas Mann [another of my all-time favorites]

[6] Can You Forgive Her? Anthony Trollope [his Barchester novels are all wonderful!]

[7] Sophie's Choice, William Styron

[8] Underworld, Don DeLillo

[9] Lonesome Dove, Larry McMurtry

It is as good a list as any to begin a reading list for the rest of 2001. Though here is another interesting list:

The Ten Books One Would Save in a Fire (If One Could Save Only Ten)*

[1]Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen

[2]Bleak House, Charles Dickens

[3]Anna Karenina, Leo Tolstoi

[4]The Sound and the Fury, William Faulkner

[5]The Golden Notebook, Doris Lessing

[6]Middlemarch, George Eliot

[7]Sons and Lovers, D.H. Lawrence

[8]The Collected Poems of W.B. Yeats

[9]The Collected Plays of William Shakespeare

[10]The House of Mirth, Edith Wharton

*from Anna Quindlen, in A Passion for Books, edited by Rabinowitz and Kaplan, 1999, p. 173.

Please note the words that I've bolded, and the bolded numbers that I've inserted.

The second list is indeed a list of ten big books, and it's definitely from Anna Quindlen. The first list, however, is a list of nine books. And it may or may not be from Anna Quindlen.

Be that as it may -- I grant that it's ambiguous -- it does nothing, really, to advance your cause. You and Karl would like to suggest that Mormons would find Sophie's Choice too scary to teach at BYU or to recommend. Yet Richard Cracroft, a Mormon academic writing to a Mormon audience, clearly recommends it. That he does so by citing a list compiled by the probably-Mormon librarians at the Orem Public Library goes no distance at all toward demonstrating that Mormons would find it too "edgy" for what you want to depict as their little provincial minds. Nor does it matter a whit whether the Mormon Dr. Cracroft and the probably-Mormon librarians at the Orem Public Library are endorsing it as part of a list of recommendations by Anna Quindlen. They're still endorsing it in either case.

Doctor Scratch wrote:Yes; of course it's "all right" to read The Canterbury Tales. Who on earth would ever doubt that it is? The Brethren, maybe? Or folks who are accustomed to obeying them?

It was the work of a Google second to locate a citation of the Canterbury Tales in General Conference, by Jeffrey Holland:

http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

And this recommendation of the Canterbury Tales in the September 1971 Ensign:

http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

And this citation of the Canterbury Tales in the February 1974 New Era:

http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

So. Mormons would be scared of Sophie's Choice? Nope. Wrong.

And the Brethren would never countenance the Canterbury Tales? Nope. Wrong again.

Scratch thinks in terms of hostile stereotypes that aren't supported by the facts? Yep. All too true. He just makes things up.
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