The Mormon Apologist's Modus Operandi

[_MAsh]

Sir,

They would not rustle.

Yes. They would. They would make a metallic rustling sound just as Lucy described. I've worked with stacks of metal sheets. Have you?

[_maklelan]

You can go to Wikipedia to view the image in a higher resolution. Clearly, what you are describing and what this image shows is at odds. Ms. Beastie is simply showing you that Emma's experience was fallacious.

First, you are aware those aren't the real plates, right? You know it would be terribly silly to insist that model can be evaluated to see if the real plates could rustle. Second, please explain for me how Emma's experience at all qualifies as "fallacious." And please be specific.

[Guest]

Sir,

They would not rustle.

Yes. They would. They would make a metallic rustling sound just as Lucy described. I've worked with stacks of metal sheets. Have you?

Hello,

Of course I have worked with various types of "metal sheets" throughout the course of my life. There have been an occasions, through work or leisure in which I have "worked with" various types of "metal sheets", Sir.

You clearly do not know what the word "rustle" means. Let me share with you a common definition, and then look at the image again and be enlightened:

make a dry crackling sound; "rustling silk"; "the dry leaves were rustling in the breeze"
take illegally; "rustle cattle"
forage food
a light noise, like the noise of silk clothing or leaves blowing in the wind
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

a soft crackling sound similar to the movement of leaves; to move (something) with a soft crackling sound; to move speedily, especially in the phrase rustle up some food; to steal cattle or other livestock
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rustle

So on and so forth... I will continue to calmly and lucidly convey the Truth.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_maklelan]

Hello Everyone,

I suppose, yet another tactic Mormon apologists use is either to redefine a word or, when countered effectively claim they were using an obscure definition of the word. The above discussion illustrates this perfectly. In the Mormon apologist's world "thumbing" the plates meant Mrs. Smith was "sliding" the plates around. Aside from the presumed difficulty of sliding bound plates against one another, it defies all reason and logic to say she was thumbing the plates when, according to Mr. Maklelan, she was not thumbing the plates.

Please give us the appropriate definition for "thumbing" plates, with a reference.

Here's my definition, from the OED:

thumb, v.

1. trans. To feel with or as with the thumb; to handle.
{dag}to thumb the belt of, to be in subjection to. Sc. Obs.

2. To play (a wind instrument, an air) with or as with the thumbs; to perform or manipulate clumsily. Also intr. with it.

3. a. To soil or wear (esp. a book) with the thumbs in using or handling; hence, to read much or often.

b. = thumb-read vb. s.v. THUMB n. 6e; freq. const. through. Also, to turn (pages) with or as with the thumb in glancing through a book, etc.

4. a. To press, smooth, clean, spread, or smear with the thumb. b. To cover (the touchhole of a cannon) with the thumb; cf. THUMB-STALL

c. to thumb one's nose: see NOSE n. 8f.

5. To seek or get (a ride or lift) in a passing vehicle by signalling with one's thumb the direction in which one hopes to travel (also fig.); to signal to (a driver or vehicle) with the thumb.

6. intr. To gesture with the thumb; esp. to signal with the thumb in the hope of getting a lift in a passing vehicle.

As you can see, both interpretations are appropriate (mine is first, though). Thus Beastie's assertion that mine is precluded is false.

[_maklelan]

Hello,

Of course I have worked with various types of "metal sheets" throughout the course of my life. There has been an occasion, through work or leisure in which I have "worked with" various types of "metal sheets", Sir.

You clearly do not know what the word "rustle" means. Let me share with you a common definition, and then look at the image again and be enlightened:

make a dry crackling sound; "rustling silk"; "the dry leaves were rustling in the breeze"
take illegally; "rustle cattle"
forage food
a light noise, like the noise of silk clothing or leaves blowing in the wind
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

a soft crackling sound similar to the movement of leaves; to move (something) with a soft crackling sound; to move speedily, especially in the phrase rustle up some food; to steal cattle or other livestock
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rustle

So on and so forth... I will continue to calmly and lucidly convey the Truth.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

What's laughable is that nothing in that definition conflicts with our position, but "rustling" is nowhere defined as "the noise paper makes as you flip through the pages." You're doing a horrible job here, but you won't care, will you? You'll just reassert that you're right.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Sir,

Have you ever thumbed anything before?

To feel with or as with the thumb

Clearly when you thumb something that has pages you use your thumb, and strum the pages, as it were. You do not... I suppose... Move the pages around so they "rustle" or "scrap" one another. You thumb them. It is a very clear concept, Sir. I apologize for my peckishness, but your dissembling is bothersome.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_gramps]

Mak wrote:

You're doing a horrible job here, but you won't care, will you? You'll just reassert that you're right.

This is just getting more hilarious by the minute, it seems.

Mak, get a grip. You are doing a horrible job here, but you won't care, will you? You'll just reassert that you're right.

Right?

[_MAsh]

Sir,

Have you ever thumbed anything before?

...Clearly when you thumb something that has pages you use your thumb, and strum the pages, as it were. You do not... I suppose... Move the pages around so they "rustle" or "scrap" one another. You thumb them. It is a very clear concept, Sir. I apologize for my peckishness, but your dissembling is bothersome.

Stupid, stupid, stupid Mike. When will you learn your lesson? It is virtually impossible to carry on a meaningful dialogue with the majority of message-board critics. It's a monumental waste of time. Over and over you tell yourself-- don't post your thoughts, nothing good will come of it. And yet, you refuse to listen and post anyway. Now get back to doing something productive and leave this silliness alone.

[_Some Schmo]

Clearly when you thumb something that has pages you use your thumb, and strum the pages, as it were. You do not... I suppose... Move the pages around so they "rustle" or "scrap" one another. You thumb them.

Not me! When I go to the book store to see if there's something new that interests me, I start to thumb through the books by opening them up and rubbing the pages together. What, you don't? How odd. I thought everyone does that. I mean, that's what thumbing through pages means. Don't be stupid and think it means anything else. Please... who are you trying to kid?

I don't care to flip through the pages to see if the content is to my liking. All I care about is how the pages feel in relation to each other. Surely, everyone knows that!

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello Mr. Some Schmo,

I absolutely love your sense of ribaldry and forthrightness! Clearly the Mormon apologists are on the ropes with this one. You cannot "thumb" something, but instead move the pages around so they "scrape" or "rustle". It is, beyond a doubt, one of the more desperate attempts to redefine a word I have witnessed on this forum!

Oh my. I probably should not indulge in a glass of Domaine Romanee-Conti and post on this forum, but the palate demands it.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me