Mormonism: What I've learned so far.

[_MMAFighter7]

Its not good to lie. You should know better.

So should you.

My advice: follow Jesus' admonition to "love thy neighbor as thyself."

Are you saying that I'm lying?

[_MMAFighter7]

MMAFighter7 - Nevo's an honest person. Perhaps you should review your own statement. How do you expect an LDS member to react to such sweeping generalizations?

When somebody reacts with anger, sarcasm, and as a child, no matter what the statement that caused it was, I can only suspect that I stuck a nerve for one reason or another.

Now if you look at the way that Liz reacted, she was taking me down the path of, "Maybe you fell into a bad bunch. Don't give up just yet."

Thank Nevo for setting you back.

[_Yoda]

MMAFighter7 - Nevo's an honest person. Perhaps you should review your own statement. How do you expect an LDS member to react to such sweeping generalizations?

When somebody reacts with anger, sarcasm, and as a child, no matter what the statement that caused it was, I can only suspect that I stuck a nerve for one reason or another.

Now if you look at the way that Liz reacted, she was taking me down the path of, "Maybe you fell into a bad bunch. Don't give up just yet."

Thank Nevo for setting you back.

Thanks, MMA.

Look...I think you are going to find people who are both nice and obnoxious in any organized group, particularly Church congregations.

For some reason, it seems that there is a larger amount of eccentric Mormons clustered in Utah than anywhere else! LOL

Let me also mention that we lived in Utah Valley, which we referred to rather sarcastically as "Happy Valley", or the Provo/Orem area. A close friend of mine lived in Salt Lake City, and she loved her Ward.

[_John Larsen]

I was so open to learn when first moved here about a month and a half ago. I still have the missionaries over to my house twice a week, and since I've completed all of my lessons that they have, we have studies and small debates now. But above all, this is what I have learned.
First, I've learned that I can't trust a single person that I've met who is Mormon. I can't trust them to be anywhere on time. I can't trust them to keep what I say between us, and I can't trust them to say what they mean.

Second, I have never met so many people in relationships, either dating or married, with other relationships going on in the shadows.

Third, they all lie. They lie so much and about anything. Even when the truth would do them better. From what they think about someone, to what they believe, from what they ate for lunch, to what color the grass is. I have never been lied to, straight faced, and without any remorse, then since I have lied in Utah.

Last is control. They all seem to what to control something. If they aren't in total control of something they don't know what to do with theirselves. People especially. A girl, a guy, younger sibling, elderly parents, anyone. If they can't say to someone "You better f***ing do this." They aren't happy.

Someone will say that there are people like this everywhere within every religion, race, and nationality. My concern is that everyone...every single person that I've met from the LDS church is like this.

Help if you can.

I have known in my life 1000s of LDS people. Your grand sweeping statements don't ring true. Nor are they anything that you could assess in "about a month and a half". I think you should do some soul searching to see what is shading your vision.

[_Gazelam]

MMA,

If it is any consolation, members of the church who lie and gossip will be judged far more harshly in the end than those who are out of the church. Mormons have actually covenanted with God to not be the way you have described.

Sorry to hear that you have met a bad group. Perhaps if you moved here to Vegas (home of many mma schools) you could join a different crowd of Mormons. Mormons here in Vegas are a bit more skilled at blending the in the world with the out of the world.
At any rate I would encourage you to be baptised. The church is true, even if some members you have met are not. Perhaps you could set a good example for them on how they should be acting. On the first sunday of the month there is a fast and testimony meeting, you could mention that you got baptised despite their bad example, lol

Gaz

[_dblagent007]

The OP: What I've learned so far.

How to generalize and slander an entire group of people. And, how stupidity is such a common trait.

[_MMAFighter7]

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding here. So to all the people who are having trouble let me get the crayons out and draw you a picture.

The thread is titled: "Mormonism: What I've learned so far"

Not, Mormonism: What I have learned to be the complete and honest truth which no person can change my mind about.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Not, Mormonism: What I have learned to be the complete and honest truth which no person can change my
mind about.

From the very beginning -- from the 1830s and 1840s, astute observers of Mormonism
noticed that many of its converts were decent (though gullible) people. The farther away
they lived from Kirtland, or from Far West, or from Nauvoo, the better they seemed to be.

Those far from the center of Mormonism were mostly converted upon the "first principles"
of the gospel and continued to live their pious lives in accord with those gospel principles.

Those who "gathered" to the centers of Mormon power were more likely to become
corrupted -- or so say many early external observers -- as well as a few internal observers
(we call them "Jack Mormons" or "apostates" -- folks like Apostle Orson Pratt's first wife).

If there is any truth in what those early observers were reporting, then we might stop
to ask -- What was it about "the gathering" that corrupted the converts?

As a Reorganized Latter Day Saint, my "stock answer" is that the Quorum of the Twelve,
their acts and examples were the main bad influence. So bad that the wrecked the Church.

Which brings to mind another measure of corruption -- the lower the level of responsibility,
the lower the level of corruption. An early deacon or teacher did not know about polygamy,
and so did not have to lie about it -- did not know about the Council of Fifty, and so did
not have to lie about it -- did not know about blood oaths, and so did not have to lie...

My advice -- go spend some time with some lower level LDS -- as far away from Utah as
possible. Say, some recent converts in Nigeria or the Ukraine.

UD

[_Paul Osborne]

Love one another. That is the true religion of God.

Paul O
LDS

[_Mary]

MMA, I don't think you should take offense at what Nevo said... I too think there are some very sweeping statements in your opening post, though I appreciate that it is your experience so far.

I spent 6 months in Utah on and off, back in the 80's and late 70's, and that's the extent of my experience with it. Aside from a few things that came up negative I found the Utah Mormons that I stayed with to be kind, helpful, generous, honest, devout and loving. I was accepted as one of the family almost everywhere I went. I loved my time there. Utah also has some astounding sites to explore and I found that most of the LDS members who I knew, loved respected and appreciated the beauty of the environment that they lived in.

That's my experience with Utah Mormons. On Dale's point, I remember sitting on a bus travelling into Salt Lake with a lady who was an employee of T. Monson. She was so bitter and angry at him for something to do with business, I can't remember what. I thought then, that it might be difficult for those members who see the very human sides of these high up leaders to keep their testimony of the church. Being in the UK, these men are just people who waft in and out at various conferences, but other than that, are a total mystery in terms of the way they conduct their everyday lives.. the uk is/was pretty low down!!


I have to tell you, too, that one of the things I miss is the kindness and the commeraderie that comes with being an active member. (maybe that's nostalgia kicking in I do appreciate that there are many negatives)