Mormonism: What I've learned so far.

[_Daheshist]

I was not raised Mormon, but I was active in the Church for 5 or 6 years and I lived in Utah for 4 years. I honestly believe that those raised Mormons are "delusional" and are totally out-of-touch with reality; at least 90% of them are.

I would say you've HIT IT ON THE HEAD!!! At least with 90% of active Mormons. They lie, but they do not consider themselves to be liars. They have sex before marriage (or when divorced), but they do not consider themselves to be AT ALL immoral in any way. Hypocrites don't think they are "hypocrites". They think they are "normal" and something is wrong with "YOU" if you think otherwise.

You are delusional.

I think it has to do with "culture"; how Mormons are raised. In Baptist churches, people are raised to hear "You are a SINNER and burn in HELL unless you repent and accept Jesus and be born again!" Mormons don't hear that. They hear from birth, "You are GOOD! You are a CHILD OF GOD! You are CHOSEN!" And of course they believe that all throughout adulthood. No matter how BAD they get....they still believe they are GOOD...the CHOSEN. It has to do with how Mormons are raised.

Were you brought up Mormon? I was. I can tell you what you say is nothing like reality. LDS are hammered constantly about how we are not good enough, how we have to become almost perfect to be exalted, how sex sin is next to murder. Ever read SWKs Miracle of Forgiveness. I grew up under SWK. I read his book. I was sure I would never make it to the celestial kingdom because I had masturbated as well as looked at naughty books. I had other rebilious things I did too. When I straightened up and decided to serve a mission I was fraught with guilt and felt I would never be good enough. Even as a young adult I and into my 30s I stuggeled with not feeling like the perfect Mormon, the best father. the best priesthood holder and on and on. It was in my late 30s to my 40s when I understood that I had been fed a constant stream of ideas that just did not jibe with the good news of the gospel of Christ. Maybe it was there and I had not heard it. But it was like a light to me.

What you say about how Mormons are raised is so far off. Sure Mormons think they are chosen modern Israel and the one true church. That makes them special but by hell they better live up to it and if not God would judge them harder than others. T

This is what Mormons often grow up with though that is softening some as time moves on.

So.... YES!!! Mormon culture is one of deception, mask, false-humility, false pretenses, holier-than-thou, secret sins are ok ("God Can't See Me In The Dark" attitude), I'm better than you, etc. But there is a small minority of Mormons who ARE NOT LIKE THIS.

Most active Mormons I know try to live their religion. I know many too.

Mormons (those who are raised in the Church) truly believe they are GOOD, and everything they do is justified and good. They have NO SENSE whatsoever they are sinners, and they don't believe in Hell-fire! So, they have NO FEAR of God or the consequences of their actions.

Pure and utter baloney.

But, I truly believe in THE TEN PERCENT. From my experience, and in my opinion, about 10% of active Mormons (1 in 10 of the active Church-going Mormons) do strive to be honest and moral people, and sincerely repent when they make mistakes. You have to look hard to find the TEN PERCENT, but they are there...I can assure you.

There are about one million active Mormons in the United States. About 100,000 of them are good, honest, and moral people. IF you can accept The Book of Mormon is literal history, and IF you can accept Thomas S. Monson speaks with God on a first name basis, then the Church is worth it; because of the Ten Percent.

Horse crap. Your distorted delusional view has no base in reality.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Might I suggest using Glenn Beck as a good example of the typical Mormon male?
...

I'm not sure "typical" is the right word. There are other Mormons like him, but most
only parallel Bro. Beck partially.

His coy advocacy of Mitt Romney struck me as a sort of red herring distraction,
which we might find in some LDS defenders -- the "I'm not really supporting this"
tactic of extending support.

But the more "typical" LDS male would probably have simply stated that is was God's
will that one of the "Elders of Israel" save the hanging-by-a-thread US Constitution,
by becoming the US President. Beck's approach was more subtle -- more worthy of
Joseph Smith himself, than one of Smith's followers. All of Nauvoo voted Democrat
in one election, while Smith himself publicly voted Whig. Beck would understand that.

I wonder sometimes what "The Brethren" back in Deseret think of Beck's grandstanding?
Do they fear he will go so far as to embarrass them and their apostolic fraternity?

Perhaps so. Just like folks wondered what next would come out of Joe Smith's mouth.
High Priest Beck? - Seventy Beck? -- Apostle Beck? --- LDS President Glenn L. Beck?

That last title has an interesting ring to it.

UD

[_Dr. Shades]

Are you saying that I'm lying?

He isn't, but you did:

I have never been lied to, straight faced, and without any remorse, then since I have lied in Utah.

[_MCB]

Moving from a city in Southwest KS to a town in WI Has done wonders for my mental health. Very few Mormons around, except RLDS, and I have no problems with them, although some might think I do.

Reports from home say that things are very bad. Especially since they rebuilt the temple. Even the long-term LDS inhabitants of the area are distressed at the behavior of LDS newcomers. There has been some rather interesting discussion at the Keokuk Daily Gate City website lately, although they took it down. Some of the radical LDS rants amounted to terroristic threats.

They assert their right to sanitized family history. We can have NO family history. When depression is common in a family, the origin is not necessarily genetic.

[_Dr. Shades]

We lived in Utah for 7 Godforsaken years. I nearly lost both my testimony and my mind. I could not believe the way people acted.

Why would you let the way other people acted affect your testimony of the church?

[_EAllusion]

Moving from a city in Southwest KS to a town in WI Has done wonders for my mental health. Very few Mormons around, except RLDS, and I have no problems with them, although some might think I do.

Whereabouts in WI?

[_harmony]

Moving from a city in Southwest KS to a town in WI Has done wonders for my mental health.

South west Kansas has a lot of Mormons?

[_MCB]

LOL!! What a response!! Out of respect to my PTSD, I refuse to reveal geographical specifics. There may be some Danites lurking on this board. Yes, the town was Mormon-dominated, and they were against the wall with the influx of Hispanics.

[_Yoda]

We lived in Utah for 7 Godforsaken years. I nearly lost both my testimony and my mind. I could not believe the way people acted.

Why would you let the way other people acted affect your testimony of the church?

I probably worded that poorly. I was really just depressed when it came to Church. I had no desire to go, because the people in our immediate Ward at the time acted very un-Christian toward others. I could not understand how people who had supposedly been brought up in the same Church I had been brought up in could act this way.

It was confusing and disheartening.

I was very young at the time; I was in my 20's, hadn't been married that long, with two small babies. The Church had always been a primary social outlet for me, and it had completely disappeared.

It was a great relief when we moved to an area where people were more polite and caring.

Since we never lived in Salt Lake, or any of the suburbs of Salt Lake, I can't really say if our experience would have been different. It likely could have been.

My point to MMA was simply that not ALL Mormons have the type of attitudes that he experienced...and, based on MY living experiences, it seems that quite a few Mormons specifically in Utah exhibited the views he was describing, as opposed to other areas of the US.

[_Mary]

Dale,

I think mostly to hypocrisy, lies, subterfuge, secrecy, the need to exert control in manipulative
ways -- the contrast between the "first principles of the gospel" and Mormonism as it is lived
out, near the center of power and influence -- as a socio-political phenomenon.

I think that is what that lady on the bus all those years back, was hinting at in her anger towards Thomas Monson. She saw some of these GA's work at close quarters. Living in the UK, I am and was in no position to see the hypocrisy, lies, subterfuge, secrecy, or manipulatory control of the more powerful leaders. To me, they were kindly, usually elderly men, some with unusual opinions that I didn't always agree with, who appeared to believe deeply in their religion and were 100% committed to it, and spent their time exhorting people with all their hearts to come unto 'Christ' through the uniquely Mormon gospel and to calling and training leaders.

It seems to me that the GA's are becoming more and more insular, more careful in the way they present themselves to the public. |It seems to me that they have left the job of intellectually defending the church to the scholars (with one or two exceptions).

This is why I was so interested in Steve Benson's comments on the GA's. Here was someone who had been in the 'circle of trust' so to speak and had a hint of some of their 'real' opinions. Who are they? What are they really like? What do they really think?

I do get the impression that the public and private face of the LDS leadership are probably two different things. They have to learn, if they havn't already, to be consummate politicians and diplomats, to be careful not to court controversy in their words or writings, all while organising and leading the spiritual and temporal affairs of the church.


To me their distance from everyday people is probably their strength, but maybe it is also their greatest weakness. It opens up room for probably unwarranted and unjustified idolisation and hero worship and consequently for great disappointment for those who find that they are 'only human' afterall..?

What think you Dale?