Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Gabriel]

RI,

I respect your thought process. This thread has been a clinic on discussion forum dialogue with excellent thinking all around. Thus far I don't see any evidence that lends credence to Russell M. Nelson's story simply because the story itself hit too many faith-promoting tropes coupled with a lack of verifiable data points along with Russell M. Nelson's already established history of incredible claims that defy reason. Out of curiosity, has anyone verified he actually made it to the event, like, from an independent news source? I might of missed it, even though I've been reading the thread closely.

- Doc

I have a subscription to newspapers.com.

I already checked the Color Spectrum Sunday Edition on the 14th. There was no mention of any aircraft incidents. It did cover Kerr's (I don't think the spelling's right) inauguration. The article mostly covered what was in his inaugural address. It didn't mention about who gave the invocation. I went through all 22 pages of it, but could find nothing. Ditto for The Delta Newspaper, Millard County Chronicles Progress published on the 18th, 8 pages long.

I did read, however, some juicy stuff from a little rag called The Nauvoo Expositor. But for some reason, they only published one issue. (I guess its concept just never really caught on with some of the local townsfolk).

[Res Ipsa]

The autobiography excerpt is vague, but I'm going to guess that it's not fleshed out any more than that within the book. There's that forward, and that's it. (my guess)

I think he was inspired in part by his foreign travels where he flew on such planes frequently. I don't think the incident was the final nudge to write the book. I think when writing the book, he needed a tropey incident to be a final nudge for writing the book, to make the book production seem dramatic and inspired. He sure had a lot of things on his mind during a few seconds of nosedive: that he'd not provided a history of his life to his family, that the other passengers were pitiful in their fear, that he was calm knowing he'd been sealed in the temple and all his faith, the great phoniness of academia and all of his awards and accomplishments, his suits and tuxs and dinners...

From the time of the Dixie trip to the book published in hardback, it was just over 2 years. A first book by typewriter, 400+ pages, read by SWK, lots of pictures, with mid 70s tech. Possible, but I think he was working on it longer.

For years this dramatic event was never a thing outside of the family book. In 1985, it became a thing. It included the trope, "the halfway point -- the point of no return" which is straight from movies. Again, a halfway point can't be the point of no return and a pilot would doubtfully say that. However, in fiction and movies, the two phrases are found together constantly. the episode is a movie scene. By 1985, the coast was clear, he could reimage the event as happening on a trip close to the time of publication, as it had been 9 years. No Internet etc., not easily contradicted.

I hope your guess is wrong. But I don’t understand why he make up a whole story for the preface of his book. It’sa weird thing to do. At the time, writing family histories was a thing people did. My grandma wrote one and gave copies to all her grandchildren. I think Nelsons cover is of finer quality. So there’s no need to justify writing his own history. And there’s no need to make up a story to impress his family. The guy helped create the first artificial heart and did heart surgery on Spencer W Freaking Kimball. That’s rock star stuff already.

And I don’t think we can conclude that he kept the story in the family. There is no press report of the substance of any speech or talk he gave before he became GA. He was President of the Sunday school and an Area Representative. He could have related the story at Fast and Testimony Meeting, His home ward sacrament meeting, stake conference, or as a visiting area representative or even at the Sunday school session of General Conference without leaving any paper trail for us to find.

His talks and speeches only start to get reported anywhere after he joins the first Presidency. I think it’s possible that new GAs look for personal stories that they can interpret as faith promoting tropes.

[Res Ipsa]

RI,

I respect your thought process. This thread has been a clinic on discussion forum dialogue with excellent thinking all around. Thus far I don't see any evidence that lends credence to Russell M. Nelson's story simply because the story itself hit too many faith-promoting tropes coupled with a lack of verifiable data points along with Russell M. Nelson's already established history of incredible claims that defy reason. Out of curiosity, has anyone verified he actually made it to the event, like, from an independent news source? I might of missed it, even though I've been reading the thread closely.

- Doc

I have a subscription to newspapers.com.

I already checked the Color Spectrum Sunday Edition on the 14th. There was no mention of any aircraft incidents. It did cover Kerr's (I don't think the spelling's right) inauguration. The article mostly covered what was in his inaugural address. It didn't mention about who gave the invocation. I went through all 22 pages of it, but could find nothing. Ditto for The Delta Newspaper, Millard County Chronicles Progress published on the 18th, 8 pages long.

I did read, however, some juicy stuff from a little rag called The Nauvoo Expositor. But for some reason, they only published one issue. (I guess its concept just never really caught on with some of the local townsfolk).

Is the Color Spectrum the college newspaper? That’s where I thought I saw it reported that he gave the invocation. Stupid memory!

[Res Ipsa]

The November 18 edition of the Dixie Sun reports that Nelson gave the invocation at the 11/12 inauguration.

[Gabriel]

Is the Color Spectrum the college newspaper? That’s where I thought I saw it reported that he gave the invocation. Stupid memory!

No, it is the St. George Paper. (and I believe it includes Cedar City , as well). I didn't think to check if Dixie had a paper. I will check it out tomorrow.

[Gadianton]

Gabriel, did it say what time the ceremony started?

[DrW]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but landing in a farmer's field would cause significant damage to a commuter airplane, no? There are structural issues that'd have to be corrected in addition to landing gear. So, add that on top of the engine fire and other items Dr. W listed when a plane is transported from an accident scene to a hangar for repairs.

Source: I took a whopping 6 1/2 hours of flight lessons near Victorville, CA in the late 90's - a Cessna 152. So. I'm basically an expert on aviation-related matters.

Me too . My first flying lesson was in a friend's Cessna 140 tail dragger. I was hooked. Our first plane was a Cessna 150. Before we sold it, my wife had learned to fly and I had a earned a commercial pilot's license with multi-engine and instrument ratings. Much of the written exam for a commercial license is on FAA rules and regulations for commercial flight operations, such as when a pilot must report an aircraft accident to the FAA.

That exam was no problem. On the other hand, no test I have ever taken, before or since, was as difficult or as stressful as the FAA written exam for an instrument rating. That exam was a killer. (It was multiple choice with what looked like 1 silly, and 4 correct, answer choices for each question.) Commercial airline pilots must pass both of those exams, plus have an ATP license, type ratings and take what are called check rides with an FAA instructor periodically , plus pass an annual medical exam by an FAA certified physician.

That said, there is absolutely no chance that an airline pilot, legally obligated to report any accident to the FAA, would lose and engine to an explosion and fire, spin the aircraft as a result (scaring the hell out of the passengers), recover from the spin, then (crash) land in a privately owned field damaging any crop there, and not report the "occurrence" to the FAA (as was suggested upthread). None.

Airline pilots have my great respect. On commercial flights, I still congratulate the pilots on good landings when exiting the aircraft and try to remember that I'm safe back on the ground because the blonde setting upfront in the left seat is a whole lot smarter than I am.

[Physics Guy]

I’ve never even played Flight Simulator but I knew a guy once who had conducted a funded research project based on him flying around a tornado in a Cessna firing instruments into the funnel on rockets mounted under the wings. It sounds like a tall tale but he had it all captured on videotape which he showed annually at a commemorative party. I’ve seen it, and it was before such things were easy to fake. The rockets all seemed to miss but it was a good try.

The guy was a legend and not only for that. He worked at Los Alamos “on both sides of the fence”. He sometimes contributed valuable information about stellar fusion reactions at astrophysics conferences and had to say that No, he couldn’t say how he knew that.

[Tom]

The November 12, 1976 issue of the Dixie Sun reported that the ceremonies were scheduled to begin at 2 pm: https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/details?id=29445864

[DrW]

That said, there is absolutely no chance that an airline pilot, legally obligated to report any accident to the FAA, would lose and engine to an explosion and fire, spin the aircraft as a result (scaring the hell out of the passengers), recover from the spin, then (crash) land in a privately owned field damaging any crop there, and not report the "occurrence" to the FAA (as was suggested upthread). None.

To the list of reasons noted above as to why such an incident as Nelson described would not have escaped the attention of the FAA ,one can add:

- The pilot of an aircraft experiencing a fire that disabled the engine would declare an emergency to ATC.

- If nothing else, this action would initiate a requirement for FAA paperwork galore when the pilot landed.

- ATC would notify the FSS at the destination airport in case emergency assistance was required when the aircraft landed.

- The FAA would be notified via the FSS when the aircraft was overdue according to its flight plan, accounting for reported fuel on board.

- Even if the aircraft arrived on time and the flight plan was not properly closed the FSS would take note.

- If the plane was forced down in a field, and was unable to communicate with ATC or any nearby airport tower, and therefore could not respond to radio calls from ATC or the tower, the FAA would have been notified.

- The aircraft owner (in this case assume SkyWest) would record the Emergency Declaration event at its flight operations center and make said record available to FAA inspectors, or NTSB investigators, if requested.

- The aircraft owner (SkyWest?) would be required keep a record of any repairs made to the aircraft in the company maintenance logs, also subject to FAA inspection.

- Major repairs would require a test flight to confirm airworthiness, before the aircraft could return to service, which would also be recorded as such in the maintenance records of the aircraft.

What affect contemporary media coverage would have had on public awareness of the harrowing aviation accident can only be imagined, but it would not have been zero - which is what seems to be the case for Nelson's story.

By now it is abundantly clear that Nelson made the whole thing up and got trapped in his lies, both in his speeches and in print, by the advent of the internet. He should print a retraction and make a public apology. Given his past behavior, it is more likely the he will double down and the story will continue to evolve.

Paul Dunn anyone?