"This is NOT the place to ask questions"!

[Guest]

First, most couldn't ID Elijah or what his mission was. A bit of explanation and then the concensus was Joseph got the sealing keys from him but no sealings until 1843. He than asked about Fannie Alger. Was questioned harshly about 'where do you get this crap'... and he replied 'LDS Church Genealogy website" and it got worse from there.

Two 'testified' he should't be asking questions like this. He replied asking 'where do I ask if not in an LDS Priesthood/Relief Society meeting? He did thank one sister who suggested some weeks ago after I asked similar stuff that he should 'google it'... and he told the group that is where he got the LDS site information on Joseph marrying Fannie before he had the Sealing Keys.

Here is another problematic aspect of zyzyzcycxycy's story. He states that the Church dissenter claimed to have learned about Fanny Alger on the Church's website. In fact, the dissenter was so confident of this fact that he made the claim twice in the meeting.

Guess what? Neither LDS.org nor FamilySearch.org show anything about Joseph Smith marrying Fanny Alger period, much less prior to 1836.

Here is the FamilySearch website: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... esults.asp

Having established that this part of the story is false, let's consider the most likely explanations. One explanation is that zyzxyxyxyzy learned about Fanny being sealed before the sealing keys were restored from this very website (a topic that has been repeatedly discussed recently) and then fabricated a story about it.

The other explanation is that the guy in the story was seriously confused about where he learned such earth shattering information. Maybe he learned it from a website, but somehow confused that with official Church sources.

The latter possibility seems to be a stretch since the information obviously made a significant impression on his mind - enough that he was willing to bring it up in a combined Church meeting - yet he couldn't remember where he got it from. Hard to believe in my opinion.

I think the zyzxyxyzy made it up explanation is the most likely.

[_Yoda]

What experiences did you have in Utah that make you believe that it is even plausible that a Bishop would announce a boycott of an apostate in a Church meeting and threaten to enforce it by withholding temple recommends, and a high councilor backs him up? I have lived in Utah almost all of my life and I have never witnessed or even heard of anything that would make this plausible.

Let me preface my remarks by saying that if the bishop and high counselor did these things, they should be released from their callings immediately, and possibly even excommunicated for exercising unrighteous dominion over members.

I lived in the Orem area for eight years. I grew up in Northern California, and had never experienced some of the un-Christlike actions I experienced while living in Utah.

Example #1:

It was 1992. There was a huge recession which had hit the Utah area pretty hard. The company my husband worked for, which had been in place for over 30 years, and employed literally thousands of people, had been shut down. My husband was a recent BYU graduate, and had received a management position with the company. He was laid off, and had a very hard time finding another job. I was pregnant with our second child at the time. My husband was the Scoutmaster at the time. The Bishop called him into his office, summarily released him from his calling, and told him that he "was not worthy to receive another calling until he got another job."

My husband looked this Bishop in the eye and said, "You can do what you want as far as callings are concerned, but you cannot keep me, or my family from walking through those chapel doors."

This whole incident was very wearing on my husband, who had been a faithful Church member his whole life, and was having a very hard time finding work. We eventually moved to North Carolina for work, which was one of the best things we could have done. The members of the ward were constantly gossiping about everyone and everything.

Example #2:
Our next door neighbors were a very nice Catholic family. We became very good friends with them....our kids played together, etc. The couple told us that they were surprised that as an LDS family, we were so nice to them. In all of the other neighborhoods they had lived in, the LDS folks basically snubbed them and kept to themselves, once they made it clear that they weren't interested in attending Church, because they were active in their own Church. They also told us that they had been blatantly discriminated against by 6 landlords before finding the house next to us that they were renting.

Example #3:
My other neighbor who was LDS made a snide comment about a woman getting ready to go to the gym. She was in an exercise outfit. She said, "Well, THAT woman obviously doesn't have a temple recommend....she's not wearing garments, that's for sure." I told her she needed to repent for being so judgmental, and also told her that it must have been a while since she was at the temple, because they tell you not to wear your garments if you are going somewhere you have to change in public(i.e. the doctor's office, etc.).

I was never so happy to move out of a state in my entire life.

So do I think it is possible that some nutjob bishop and high counselor threatened a congregation in this manner? In Utah? Why not?!

Do I HOPE that it DIDN'T happen? Do I HOPE that it is, in fact, a lie? For the sake of the Church, and more importantly, for that congregation....ABSOLUTELY!!!

[_dblagent007]

This morning in combined Relief Society/Priesthood it got ugly.

zyzyzy, perhaps you could explain why you were having a combined RS/Priesthood meeting on the third Sunday of the month?

These meetings are almost always held on the fifth Sunday of a month (only happens four times a year).

Unlike the lessons held on the first four weeks of the month, the fifth-Sunday discussions may be held either in combined meetings of Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society, or in separate groups of adult brethren and sisters.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

See also:
http://www.lds.org/pa/display/0,17884,4737-1,00.html
http://www.lds.org/pa/display/0,17884,5028-1,00.html

[_dblagent007]

Liz, I think your first example provides some support for zyxy's claim, but even then releasing someone from a calling for improper reasons is much different than denying people admittance to the temple in the name of enforcing a boycott.

Your other examples show that people can be rude. If the Bishop's only crime was being rude, then sure it is plausible, if not likely. But he went way, way beyond that by trying to enforce a boycott of an apostate's business by withholding temple recommends.

[_Yoda]

Guess what? Neither LDS.org nor FamilySearch.org show anything about Joseph Smith marrying Fanny Alger period, much less prior to 1836.

You are actually incorrect. Fanny and Joseph's marriage is documented on the FamilySearch.org website here:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... _form=true

Not only that, but it also shows the marriage taking place in 1835:

FANNY SMITH ALGER Compact Disc #74 Pin #832820 Pedigree
Sex: F
Event(s)
Parents
Marriage(s)
Spouse: JOSEPH THE PROPHET SMITH Disc #74 Pin #832816
Marriage: 1835
OLIVER COWDERY ? OFFICIATING
Notes and Sources
Notes: None
Sources: None
Submitter
CLAIRE ANN "KILBEY" DOTSON
S47W25001 LAWNSDALE RD WAUKESHA, WI 53189-7815
Submission Search: 792004-0613102163924
URL: http://dotson-kilbey-.myfamily.com
CD-ROM: Pedigree Resource File - Compact Disc #74
CD-ROM Features: Pedigree View, Family View, Individual View, Reports, Downloadable GEDCOM files, Notes and Sources.
Order Pedigree Resource File CD-ROMS

[_dblagent007]

You are actually incorrect. Fanny and Joseph's marriage is documented on the FamilySearch.org website here:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... _form=true

The link only takes me to the basic search page. I have searched both Joseph Smith and FA and can't find what you have shown. Do you have a direct link to the record?

[_dblagent007]

Okay, I found a bunch of individual records for FA that show her married to Joseph Smith. It looks like a bunch of people submitted her as a wife after ISL came out.

I was wrong about that, but I still think the idea of a Bishop implementing a boycott and enforcing it by withholding temple recommends is implausible until proven otherwise.

[_Yoda]

You are actually incorrect. Fanny and Joseph's marriage is documented on the FamilySearch.org website here:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... _form=true

The link only takes me to the basic search page. I have searched both Joseph Smith and FA and can't find what you have shown. Do you have a direct link to the record?

Hmmm...I'm not sure why it isn't taking you directly there. I did a copy/paste on the link.

Click on this link here:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... _form=true

Make sure you are looking under Pedigree Resource File. Plug in the first name Fanny, last name Alger and hit Search.

Scroll down to option #100. You will see there where it says Fanny Smith Alger. Click on that, and you will come up with the same information I quoted. I'm not sure why the link won't take you correctly there when I copy/paste. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[_Yoda]

Okay, I found a bunch of individual records for FA that show her married to Joseph Smith. It looks like a bunch of people submitted her as a wife after ISL came out.

I was wrong about that, but I still think the idea of a Bishop implementing a boycott and enforcing it by withholding temple recommends is implausible until proven otherwise.

It looks like we were posting at the same time. Glad you found it.

Hey, like I said before...I certainly hope that you are right. I'm just saying that I have observed behavior that I never thought I would observe from Church members...and just because those members happen to hold high callings in the priesthood doesn't necessarily exclude them from being nutjobs once in a while.

Again, I really hope this story isn't true.

[_zzyzx]

The fact I and most of you have never had a kid kidnapped does not mean it does not happen. The fact I and most of you have never been hit by lightning does not mean it does not happen.

Too many here are quick to label on a liar. Should I meet you in person I will deal with it then, up close, personal and final. You are no better than the trash I have met in Utah. You may not be LDS but you are the same damn people.