asbestosman wrote:I am saddened, but not surprised. I wonder how much of a role this board played into it. This place invites criticizing and mocking the apostles and prophets. It also mocks the law of chastity.
I don't think this board was much of a factor in my decision to leave the church. The loss of my testimony was a gradual thing and came about because I was willing to open my heart and mind to the possibility that I misinterpreted what I once thought was absolute. I will agree that there are some harsh things said by some people on this board but you have to understand that there are some deep emotions coming from people who invested parts of their lives into the system and afterward felt cheated. Let them vent and deal with their frustrations. Remember patience, charity, kindness, godliness, etc.
Polygamy-Porter wrote:I should add you to my list of soon-to-defect-members.
Seriously.
First you need to get me to criticize the brethren. I find it much more enjoyable to criticize apostate ideas.
I once thought that way. :-)
Criticizing the brethren often comes after realizing that one's testimony has been compromised from thinking outside the box. I always thought you were a bit outside the box. My compliments!
Holland's talk was pretty right on the money when it comes to the Book of Mormon. In terms of his money, I don't think that he is skimming from church accounts.
What I meant to imply is that Holland enjoys the lavish lifestyle of having more than any man needs to enjoy the good things of this life. I’m sure he has plenty of money and his retirement is very secure. He didn’t become a General Authority as a poor man pertaining to the things of the world. Job and resources are definitely required factors in becoming a GA.
Holland is well taking care of. What is his annual church salary? I don’t know. What are the benefits and perks that go with the position? Add them all up and you’ll probably discover he lives pretty deliciously. That’s a far cry from being like Jesus who didn’t even own a bed. GA’s live secure lives and are protected from financial hardship. They are well fed and provided nice accommodations where ever they go.
Some Schmo wrote:Critics here are saying nothing new, and nothing that any sensible, rational person would say
I agreed with you up to this point, and then you lost me.
I think he meant to say, "Critics here are saying nothing new, and nothing that any sensible, rational person wouldn't say if they thought about the church objectively without special pleading."
Paul,
I wish you all of the best on your unique journey. The free world is a beautiful place.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
Paul Osborne wrote:The time has come, alas! My apostasy . . . .
I no longer pledge my obedience or faithfulness to the brethren of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or to any church for that matter. Screw them all!
I no longer believe that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet, seer, or revelator although I think he is a nice guy. I think the LDS church is run like a business and by white collar men who love power, money, and position. Screw them.
I have no regrets for living Mormonism and value my experience in the church as an important part of my life's mission on this earth. It was a great ride while it lasted. But the ride is over.
I do however retain my belief in God and Jesus Christ. I feel like I can breath now. There really is air outside of Mormonism wherein life does exist. It feels pretty good, folks. I'm in the process of being debrainwashed and am coming along OK. However, with all that said, there is a possibility I could go back to the Church but that would require the absence of faith and the church proving what it claims to be. I doubt that will happen because the Church doesn't have a good track record of proving anything.
Thoughts? I don't know if I'll comment much. This is a difficult moment for me. I'm sure you all understand.
Best wishes on your journey through this life Paul.
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it. Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010
Polygamy-Porter wrote:You have no ground to stand on. Aren't you the completely inactive non tithe paying defender of LDS Inc?
In a way, you are similar to how Ray A used to be... Hmmmm, perhaps I should add you to my future defectors list...
Explain to me again, why you defend something that you do not support?
This is a common complaint that I get or gotten from exmembers and postmormons. But it isn't that unusual. There are many inactives that would defend the LDS church against the notion that the LDS church is false. One does not need to be TBM to do so. Now of course, an inactive person does not have the time invested in the LDS church and perhaps not the money either. But that makes little difference when it comes to absolutes about the LDS church being false.
And this is where Paul is not at. From one extreme to the other as happens to many former TBM's. It is sad but such is the way it is. Me? I just take a middle ground. I see no proof that it is false. But I do see some facts that give me hope that it is true. In the end, it is all a matter of faith, nothing more.
Oliver, David and other witnesses on their deathbed all reaffirmed their testimony of the Book of Mormon. And that means a great deal.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
The Dude wrote:Recent performance suggests Asbestosman is squarely inside [the] box.
Ah, thanks Dude. That's the nicest thing a critic has said to me on this board. It sure beats the back-handed compliments from JSM.
I noticed how JSM got fed up. Too bad. At the start of that discussion, I think he was really hoping for something constructive, but alas, your intellectual heft is in decline. Here's hoping it isn't permanent. Cheers!
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
