http://mormonexpression.com/?p=298
In this episode hosted by Tom, regular panelists Nyal and George stage a debate to discuss if the Church discourages discussion of its history and doctrine.
Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
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_The Nehor
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 11832
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
Just by seeing the names of the exalted panelists I know that in their infinite wisdom the panelists concluded that the Church does in fact discourage discussion.
Even though it doesn't.
Even though it doesn't.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
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_Gadianton Plumber
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
The Nehor wrote:Just by seeing the names of the exalted panelists I know that in their infinite wisdom the panelists concluded that the Church does in fact discourage discussion.
Even though it doesn't.
In this you are mistaken. There was a very strong case that the Church encourages and does its best to support discussion. I hope you will give it a listen.
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_The Nehor
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 11832
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
Gadianton Plumber wrote:In this you are mistaken. There was a very strong case that the Church encourages and does its best to support discussion. I hope you will give it a listen.
The intro stated that they were going to discuss WHY the Church suppressed it's history then they held the debate. Yes, open-minded discourse and fair-minded debate at it's finest.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
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_Gadianton Plumber
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
The Nehor wrote:Gadianton Plumber wrote:In this you are mistaken. There was a very strong case that the Church encourages and does its best to support discussion. I hope you will give it a listen.
The intro stated that they were going to discuss WHY the Church suppressed it's history then they held the debate. Yes, open-minded discourse and fair-minded debate at it's finest.
I can see that you have not listened. Listen to the debate. Listen to the source. Keep an open mind. Then return and report.
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
This was a great debate!! GPlumber, dang, that was some amazing apologetics!!
It raised the question in my mind, does the church discourage meat, or are there just not enough members interested enough in learning the meat?
It raised the question in my mind, does the church discourage meat, or are there just not enough members interested enough in learning the meat?
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
I get the impression that the church discourages scholarship and doctrinal research every time I walk into Deseret Bookstore. can't find any of that stuff there!!
Silly
Looking forward to listening to this tommorow.
Silly
Looking forward to listening to this tommorow.
Last edited by Steeler [Crawler] on Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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_mentalgymnast
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
Scottie wrote:This was a great debate!! GPlumber, dang, that was some amazing apologetics!!
It raised the question in my mind, does the church discourage meat, or are there just not enough members interested enough in learning the meat?
On the whole I think that members are busily engaged in living their religion rather than looking for reasons to pick it apart. When one sees oneself as a disciple of Jesus Christ trying to walk in his footsteps alternate voices are less intrusive.
by the way, John Larsen, I've listened to most of your podcasts while out running and have really enjoyed them. Fairly balanced for one who is sitting on the fringes of Mormonism.
Regards,
MG
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
"On the whole I think that members are busily engaged in living their religion rather than looking for reasons to pick it apart."
This attitude is one of the major problems with LDS, Inc. and its members. A suspicion that studying any history is counterproductive. Asking questions about the history is wrong. Looking at history and honestly looking for the truth is looked down on big time.
Many would rather go on being told everything rather than read something for themselves. Many church members have never read the LDS Scriptures. Many have never read a complete issue of most Church magazines. They sit and make an appearance and 'try to live the gospel' but know little of what it is that they profess to believe and little of its history. Dumbing down doesn't even have to be a conscious goal of leadership as most never ask questions and fewer want answers beyond facile assurances they are doing OK.
Try having a discussion as to what Gordon Hinckley meant when he said 'I don't know that we believe that" and "polygamy is not doctrinal" in live TV interviews.
Keep it simple. Don't ask questions. Heartburn is often mistaken for The Holy Ghost... and that is OK as long as you appear to run with the crowd. Actual discussion beyond agreeing with the manual is almost non-existant in every ward I have been in from California to Washington to Virginia to Texas to Utah to Idaho to Missouri. Though Missouri did have a bit more discussion thanks to 'The Reorgs" and "Nauvoo Restoration", mainly as a result of paranoia as far as I could tell.
Discussion in too many Wards is limited to 'I agree and ask only approved questions, nothing that can't be answered in 20-35 minutes of superficial manual quoting.'
This attitude is one of the major problems with LDS, Inc. and its members. A suspicion that studying any history is counterproductive. Asking questions about the history is wrong. Looking at history and honestly looking for the truth is looked down on big time.
Many would rather go on being told everything rather than read something for themselves. Many church members have never read the LDS Scriptures. Many have never read a complete issue of most Church magazines. They sit and make an appearance and 'try to live the gospel' but know little of what it is that they profess to believe and little of its history. Dumbing down doesn't even have to be a conscious goal of leadership as most never ask questions and fewer want answers beyond facile assurances they are doing OK.
Try having a discussion as to what Gordon Hinckley meant when he said 'I don't know that we believe that" and "polygamy is not doctrinal" in live TV interviews.
Keep it simple. Don't ask questions. Heartburn is often mistaken for The Holy Ghost... and that is OK as long as you appear to run with the crowd. Actual discussion beyond agreeing with the manual is almost non-existant in every ward I have been in from California to Washington to Virginia to Texas to Utah to Idaho to Missouri. Though Missouri did have a bit more discussion thanks to 'The Reorgs" and "Nauvoo Restoration", mainly as a result of paranoia as far as I could tell.
Discussion in too many Wards is limited to 'I agree and ask only approved questions, nothing that can't be answered in 20-35 minutes of superficial manual quoting.'
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
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_mentalgymnast
Re: Does the Church Discourage Discussion? The Debate.
zzyzx wrote:"On the whole I think that members are busily engaged in living their religion rather than looking for reasons to pick it apart."
This attitude is one of the major problems with LDS, Inc. and its members.
Only from your POV and other critics. Members of the church are doing just fine. The church is doing just fine. The problems are in your head.
Regards,
MG