I quit the Church!!!

[_asbestosman]

And if you believe that, then you believe in contradictory Gods, or at least a God who is not the same "yesterday, today, and forever". I'm honestly perplexed that you'd think that I'd find your little rejoinder here convincing.

All I meant to say is that I don't think the New Testament (specifically the 4 gospels) is as different from the Old Testament as you seem to think. Even aside from the Jehovah connection, Jesus wasn't just a fun-loving hippie. Even in the New Testament He used violence, harsh condemnation of enemies, and mentioned that He would set families against each other.

Furthermore I have mentioned that I am suspicious of some of the accounts in the Old Testament as we have it today. But it's generally not the stuff that Paul quotes that I have misgivings about (since I don't remember all that many quotes about rapes etc.).

But then, you and I are different, in that I follow people based on the wisdom of their teachings, while you choose some other heuristic, such as their power, or whether you were indoctrinated to follow a certain person when you were a child.

Uhh, good for you or something. If you didn't keep reminding us of how superior you are, people around here might forget. I think you mischaracterize me, but don't let that interfere with the more important matter of patting yourself on the back.

[_Tchild]

Congrats Paul O on the beginnings of your "recovery" from Mormonism. No one said it would be easy, we only said that it would be worth it.

It is amazing how Mormonism appears (the mindset, the thinking processes, etc etc of its members) when you step out of the confining and fixed boundaries of its doctrinal cosmology and look back at it with new eyes and new understanding. The analogy of "Plato's Cave" comes to mind.

"Sin" and what constitutes such things becomes recontextualized with our new eyes compared to what we once believed in the mythical religious cosmology. So, go ahead and have yourself a spankfest. Do it with abandon and with gratitude that evolutionary forces in motion before religion was even a sperm cell in the first self-proclaimed prophet, provided a safe, free and totally healthy sexual outlet to enjoy.

What a newly minted ex-believer needs to remember is that there are consequences to our actions and to how we treat others, but there is no God up in the sky passing judgement or waiting to punish us, or send us to an inferior kingdom. We set in motion all the good or bad we experience in our lives (Karma baby).

Leaving Mormonism means we realize that we have the power over our own lives, how to interpret what is best for us, and to define what gives purpose and what does not, and most importantly, how to live a moral life on our terms. We cut the octogarian middlemen at 50 N. Temple out of the loop and begin to think and feel for ourselves.

When you open the door and step out into the bright light of day for yourself, you can never (nor do you ever want to) go back to the dark and confining space of Mormonism.

[_bcspace]

When you get to the judgement bar, call me as a witness and I will testify of the good which you formerly did on behalf of the Church.

You got me thinking. Does the good we do actually help us in the afterlife if we apostatize or sin without repenting? I always assumed that doing good was a duty and that by not doing good we were committing sins of mission. No extra credit for good deeds (or anything else) since we must all strive to do all we can to serve God.

And yet, maybe the good does help in that it shows one to be an honorable man (terrestrial) instead of telestial. I really wonder about this concept in the abstract.

I have no intention of judging Paul or Kevin since I don't know their circumstances or heart and am quite confident that an omniscient God can figure out judgment without my opinion on where they should end up.

Still, it seems like a good idea to remember the good people do, even when they do things you disagree with.

1 Cor 6:2 God will not be judging us.

Mormonism makes bcspace mean.

No. Your seared conscience confuses it's own guilt for meanness in others. 1 Nephi 16: 2-3 and Mormon 2:13

[_Polygamy-Porter]

blah blah blah

Do what you gotta do to keep your ass in Mormon pew.

bcspace, I am curious about your signature line, is that from Paul O? or is that you speaking to Paul?

"Joseph Smith was a prophet and the Book of Abraham is a true story written by Abraham long ago. I read your story about leaving the church. I think you made the wrong choice and will regret it later on.
Paul O"

IF it is from Paul O do you have a link to when he posted it?

Just curious, not that I care, he was as deluded as you are now. He is out, one less tithe payer, so that is what is important. Starve the beast!

[_why me]

Is it just my imagination or do you seem to be looking for reasons to repeat racial slurs?

It is just your imagination. In war, the army teaches a person to dehumanize the enemy and this is one way to do it. However, for some exmormons, the slurs are more subtle. The church becomes a corporation only interested in making a profit. Or the GA's become money grubbing or the members become morgbots. Or the prophet becomes the Profit. Then of course we the other dehumanizing expressions also.

Ray is now in the process in dehumanizing the LDS church because may be at war with it. It is that simple but not extraordinary. I can find the same on the postmormon site or on the exmormon site. The next step is to equate the holy ghost to a warm fuzzy. It is all a part of the dehumanize the LDS church process.

[_beastie]

Unless you believe, as most Christians do, that He is Jehovah of the Old Testament.

Most Christians do not believe Jehovah = Jesus. In fact, Mormonism is the only religion that I know of that teaches this idea. What other Christians do you have in mind that believe it?

Or is this the way you're interpreting the teaching of the trinity?

[_Paul Osborne]

HAH! No Paul, I'm not God, but I do have a fair view of his opinion on certain matters. Your screwing up, and I'm hoping that I can shoot you a little perspective and hopefully reign you in. Take a nice long walk tommorow and try to review your life as an outsider looking in who cares about you.

I can be callous, I know. I do care about you. And just for you here's an "I love you". And I'd love you more if you'd stop tellign people its ok to masturbate and stop your dumbass apostacy kick.

Gazelam

Well, Gaz, here is the thing about love: True love is unconditional. You shouldn't need to think you'd love me more if I stopped telling people it's OK to masturbate. You should love me as a son of God with all your heart regardless of what I think about masturbation. Now, I can understand that you'd like me more and be more comfortable in hanging out with me as a person if I thought and acted the way you do, that's human nature and perfectly OK. But to love me less because I masturbate and encourage others to masturbate is certainly not godly love.

Think about that. Think about how much better a person you could be if you found out your offspring was homosexual but you loved that child with all your heart no matter what choices that child made in life. Think about how much that child would respect you for loving him/her with all your heart. Think about how much that child of God would feel hurt if you murdered him in cold blood.

I'm going to take all the wonderful things I've learned in Mormonism with me through the balance of my life. It was a learning experience and helped me grow as a person. I have no regrets.

Paul O

[_John Waite]

HAH! No Paul, I'm not God, but I do have a fair view of his opinion on certain matters. Your screwing up, and I'm hoping that I can shoot you a little perspective and hopefully reign you in. Take a nice long walk tommorow and try to review your life as an outsider looking in who cares about you.

I can be callous, I know. I do care about you. And just for you here's an "I love you". And I'd love you more if you'd stop tellign people its ok to masturbate and stop your dumbass apostacy kick.

Gazelam

Well, Gazelam, here is the thing about love: True love is unconditional. You shouldn't need to think you'd love me more if I stopped telling people it's OK to masturbate. You should love me as a son of God with all your heart regardless of what I think about masturbation. Now, I can understand that you'd like me more and be more comfortable in hanging out with me as a person if I thought and acted the way you do, that's human nature and perfectly OK. But to love me less because I masturbate and encourage others to masturbate is certainly not godly love.

Think about that. Think about how much better a person you could be if you found out your offspring was homosexual but you loved that child with all your heart no matter what choices that child made in life. Think about how much that child would respect you for loving him/her with all your heart. Think about how much that child of God would feel hurt if you murdered him in cold blood.

I'm going to take all the wonderful things I've learned in Mormonism with me through the balance of my life. It was a learning experience and helped me grow as a person. I have no regrets.

Paul O

True love is not unconditional, and the only people who say it is are those who refuse to take responsability for their actions.

All my life I’ve seen people like that slowly evolve into sick, twisted souls, all the while demanding that others accept them and ‘love’ them as they are. But it’s pretty hard to love someone who despises himself and who has little by little become spiritually depraved. All you can really do is feel sorry for them. that’s what I feel for you Paul Osborne. Look around at those you call your ‘friends’ here. It reminds me of the prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite.

‘Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls.’

[_Trevor]

True love is not unconditional, and the only people who say it is are those who refuse to take responsability for their actions.

If you believe that tripe, then I hope you don't have kids.

[_Paul Osborne]

True love is not unconditional, and the only people who say it is are those who refuse to take responsability for their actions.

All my life I’ve seen people like that slowly evolve into sick, twisted souls, all the while demanding that others accept them and ‘love’ them as they are. But it’s pretty hard to love someone who despises himself and who has little by little become spiritually depraved. All you can really do is feel sorry for them. that’s what I feel for you Paul Osborne. Look around at those you call your ‘friends’ here. It reminds me of the prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite.

‘Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls.’

If true love is not unconditional then you are really saying that one can stop loving another person when conditions justify it. Imagine that! No love. All that is left is judgement and condemnation!

The great commandment is that we love God with all our heart, mind, and so forth. We must love God unconditionally regardless of anything we might think that might cloud that love. The second commanment is to love our our fellow man. This is the basic premise of Christianity and everything Jesus stood for.

Now, some come along and say you don't have to love unconditionally. They do that because they want to justify their hatred and intollerance. They find it easy to feel sorry for people but hard to love them. That is so ungodly.

Furthermore, John, What are you doing on this board if it is such an evil place to hang out?

Paul O