Gene Cook-Mick Jagger airplaine conversation

[_ToGo]

ToGo---

I'd like to offer you a belated welcome to the board. This thread, I admit, has made for some very fascinating reading, and I appreciate your quest for the truth. It's unfortunate that your thread was closed on MAD, since I'm sure that some of the posters there would also like to learn the real facts about this matter. I suppose the silver lining is that the truth will emerge here, on this board, and that the MADposters can freely visit here to get the facts.

Thanks. I like this board better than MAD, in large part because the posts here are more intellectually honest.

[_ToGo]

I have been reading over the comments section at Mormanity. There is a wealth of information there for anyone who's interested (scroll down to the bottom for the most recent comments, including those of Troy Cook):

http://mormanity.blogspot.com/2005/11/m ... music.html

I thought this was especially provocative:

“(He)…could easily do a bit of research and come up with some details”. [quoting "anonymous", who I assume to be "ToGo"]

Easily? And how to you suggest then he would do this? With what information available at that time? And with what extra time? Lord knows (as do I), that GRC had but a few hours with his own family in a typical week. GRC’s fixation was on scripture and little else. If, as you suggest, he was so immersed in researching Jagger, I think the family would have noticed. It’s very likely he would have asked me for some of that information, but did not.

Personally, I believe Troy Cook. I doubt that Elder Cook would have asked his kids for info---especially given the argument in the talk that such music is of the devil, and should be avoided. We all know that the Church prefers to sweep uncomfortable subjects under the rug, and I see no reason why habit should be any different in this case.

What this *does* mean, though, is that either Elder Cook himself perused a copy of Rolling Stone--as Dr. Robbers suggested; or, that someone at the COB was assigned to help Cook fabricate this bogus, faith-promoting talk. I could be wrong, but this may constitute very important circumstantial evidence that the rank-and-file are recruited to help the Brethren peddle falsehoods.

Dr Scratch, I am responsible for some of the Anonymous postings on topic at Mormanity. Like you I find Troy credible--and very loyal to his father.

[_bcspace]

I suppose the silver lining is that the truth will emerge here, on this board, and that the MADposters can freely visit here to get the facts.

<snort!> They will certainly at least get someone's version of the truth. Perhaps several. And maybe one of them will be the actual black and white truth.....

[_bcspace]

So does bcspacey, check out my sig line.

I stand by it whole-heartedly because of the context, fighting fire with fire. Notice that I did not say the edit would be a lie.

[_ToGo]

I suppose the silver lining is that the truth will emerge here, on this board, and that the MADposters can freely visit here to get the facts.

<snort!> They will certainly at least get someone's version of the truth. Perhaps several. And maybe one of them will be the actual black and white truth.....

The attitude of this board certainly holds more promise for ascertaining the 'actual black and white truth' (whatever that might turn out to be) than the attitude of MAD does.

[_bcspace]

The attitude of this board certainly holds more promise for ascertaining the 'actual black and white truth' (whatever that might turn out to be) than the attitude of MAD does.

I agree. But also on this board are a lot of tares growing with the wheat. On the other board, one will be more likely to recognize the truth because there is a smaller tare to wheat ratio. It is the risk one takes for the truth.

[_Tchild]

The attitude of this board certainly holds more promise for ascertaining the 'actual black and white truth' (whatever that might turn out to be) than the attitude of MAD does.

I agree. But also on this board are a lot of tares growing with the wheat. On the other board, one will be more likely to recognize the truth because there is a smaller tare to wheat ratio. It is the risk one takes for the truth.

Well, I don't know about that Bcspace. When your reality is a religious cosmology how much mythology vs factual reality can you really be dealing with?

What it boils down to, ultimately, is perspective. At the Mad board you definitely get a majority perspective from the believer's viewpoint (an honest perspective no doubt), while here, you get the ex-believer's perspective (hopefully equally as honest).

As to the Jagger story, I don't doubt that Gene R. Cook recounted it the way that he has, and that witnesses exist attesting to that particular account, but as to whether it actually happened in such a fashion, shaped and narrated in the familiar sinner vs saint-testifying-in-the-name-Jesus-of-all-that-is-holy, black-white dichtotomy as found in the cardboard characters of the Book of Mormon, well, I have serious doubts.

The biggest red-flag amongst many, is that Mick Jagger would suffer himself to sit next to, or even remotely close to a religious fundy for the duration of a three hour flight. The reason you strive to make 50 million dollars, is precisely to avoid such persons till the end of your days. As the biggest rock star in the world, the only way Mick Jagger can travel, function or get around, is to assure that he is removed from fanatics, fans and those seeking to steal his life away wanting his constant attention and time.

The story might make sense if Gene Cook maybe took the same flight as Mick Jagger, but to elicit his time and attention long enough to extol his (what is a cult to most of humanity) strange morality of Mormonism to a famous rock star? Sorry, it strains credulity.

Too bad Mick Jagger didn't know a little history about Joseph Smith and spoke loudly so the whole plane could witness, to embarrass Elder Cook, the way that Elder Cook was willing to embarrass Mick Jagger, about the torrid situation with young girls, married women and the whole situation of an angel commanding Joseph Smith to engage in the marital - sexual situations Joseph was engaging in.

Perspective. If your moral perspective seems immoral to another, best to keep your judgements to yourself.

[_Danna]

GRC would have been offered a choice of magazines and newspapers while inflight. He need not have actively collected the information at all.

I just can't see Sir Mick a) travelling alone, or b) sitting 'next ' to someone if flying commercial; wouldn't a megacelebrity book adjacent seats as well? Then there is the issue of being in the smoking section. And who, other than those who already hold GRC in awe, would believe Sir Mick would engage in conversation with a religious nut (from Sir M's POV) without requesting a seat change at the least.

This is interesting:

Even before I knew who Mick was, I noticed that his pant leg was pulled up a little on his calf. As I looked at his leg I thought for some reason, "This fellow looks a little sick." I'm not sure why, but that caught my attention before I even knew who he was.

It would be tricky to be close enough to talk, but also be far enough away to be at an angle to see his lower leg while seated (unless Sir M was reclining in business class, which doesn't really fit with having an active conversation with one's neighbour).

The two being on the same plane seems likely enough, sitting next to each other gets less likely, the detailed conversation gets unlikely. Sir Mick not only having the lessons, but actually reading the Book of Mormon, as implied, then discussing life and religion for a couple of hours with a total stranger - improbable. As is his claiming to be making much more money with the advent of video (not to mention the crassness of discussing this with a stranger) - his heyday was a decade earlier.

And then, 4 or 5 drinks in a couple of hours? On a plane? Sir Mick has way more self-control than I would have, trapped next to a religious nut.

GRC certainly seems to have been fascinated though - especially if he later watched an hour of a concert on T.V.

[_Pokatator]

So does bcspacey, check out my sig line.

I stand by it whole-heartedly because of the context, fighting fire with fire. Notice that I did not say the edit would be a lie.

That's some pretty creative wordsmithing, Spacey, but you still say it is OK to lie about your religion.

How about a context of fighting with the truth?

[_Gadianton]

GRC would have been offered a choice of magazines and newspapers while inflight. He need not have actively collected the information at all.

I agree. Our theories have some common ground I see. Actually, it occurred to me that he could have sat next to a fan of Mick's who was reading a magazine article about him, and there were quite a lot of articles about Mick during that period. They could have had a conversation about the fan's interest in music that led to the fan's recounting of Mick's life, music, along with 2nd hand factual flaws such as wrong birthplace of one child and omitting the fact Jagger was married for years.

Sir Mick not only having the lessons, but actually reading the Book of Mormon,

Note that in the Korihor story that Korihor also had an understanding of the gospel. It's important that the interlocutor of the Lord's humble servant know the truth to a degree yet willfully reject it.

Oh, some here may be interested to know that a missionary from my home ward gave his homecoming talk primarily around having baptized a roadie of Alice Cooper's and that this missionary had a long talk with Alice Cooper on the phone who admitted to the missionary he had been a member of the church and knew it was true.