Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

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_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Nimrod
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Re: Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

Post by _Nimrod »

Kevin Graham wrote:Warren Buffet sitting in a sensible Omaha office: “And it just makes sense that those of us who’ve benefited most from the market should pay a bigger share.”

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I guess the point is that it is easy to call something "fair" based on the principle that every pays the same. But when a tiny percentage are reaping 80+% of the benefits, and the system is rigged to insure they and their posterity continue to own most of the nation's wealth, then it kinda brings into question this concept of fairness.


Warren Buffet in that statement reduces taxation to being a reaction to the market. That does not surprise me given Buffet's background. Take for example two individuals. Both have the same training, experience and jobs with the same company. Both are junior managers in different departments. One works 40 hours a week and never does anything on weekends, evenings or holidays. The other never takes vacation, and typically works 54 hours a week. At the end of the year, the one that worked harder receives a $30,000 bonus while the other received a $1,500 bonus. Even with the bonuses taken into account, the hourly pay for the year is actually higher for the one who works no more than the 40 hour a week schedule. Under the so-called "progressive" tax structure, the one that received the $30,000 bonus is taxed significantly more than the other, who benefited just as much--perhaps more--from society.

Buffet's argument presupposes that the contribution of time and talent to society is all the same, but some have talents more suited for our society. The question is whether the bounty from those talents belongs to society or to the individual with the better-suited talents?
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I think one thing you are missing is the fact that consumer goods will come down in cost due to capitalism (competition) and the fact that there will be no income tax on businesses. Currently, consumer goods are marked up in order to compensate for the insane amount of taxes businesses are burdened with. Take away that tax and the price of goods comes down, so a 23% additional tax will not have the impact of consumer goods prices as you think. Products might actually be cheaper, even with the tax.


Hmmmm.

That is interesting.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

== Didn't our country survive for 137 years without an income tax at all?

No, not really. The original system which gave more powers to the states gave us the Civil War in less than a century, which damn near destroyed us as a nation, killing nearly a million Americans. The aftermath is when the Federal Government assumed more power. The income tax was implemented in the 1860's to help finance the war, and it lasted for about a decade after the war and then picked up again 30 years later.

== Even when it was implemented, it was only a small like 1% on the wealthy. As time passed however, it has increased more and more, and like a frog in a pot of water heating to boiling, people don't notice how bad it has gotten compared to how it was. What the heck happened?

Times change. Our necessities change. Originally there wasn no federal income tax and there was little need to spend a lot on national defense. Nowadays it takes up the bulk of all government spending. We spend 16% of our GDP subsidizing the Health Care industry, 5% on education, 20% on debt interest and I think more than 30% on Defense.

== Also, why is it that we pay more in federal tax than local tax?

Probably because the states don't have local armies that are sent off to fight dumb wars.

== Well, aren't those paid for with LOCAL taxes? Even with all of those things, local taxes are not as much as federal. Where does all the money go? How come it is not transparent?

I think it is fairly transparent. You can go to several websites that provide a pie chart giving a breakdown of government spending.

== What is this big monster (federal government) doing with all this money?

Right now it is trying to save the banks. Over the last decade it blew a trillion on a needless war in Iraq. The government is essentially the hand of corporations. Corporations buy politicians and shape foreign policy as it suits their corporate interests abroad. Afghanistan was considered a prize by lobbying companies long before we invaded.
_Black Moclips
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Re: Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

Post by _Black Moclips »

Yeah, prices will just increase 23%. They will largely stay flat or lower as you remove all the tax impact of the product from manufacturing to delivery (employer taxes, etc).

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#48

For those interested. The more I read, the more I like it.
“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”
_lostindc
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Re: Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

Post by _lostindc »

Some of you people really have no idea how government works. Legalizing Pot will do very little in terms of stimulating a national economy whereas heavy monitoring of Federal distribution of funds, freezing government growth, and eliminating unnecessary battlefield involvement would go so much further that legalizing all drugs could barely be considered a small characteristic in economic balance.

A little of bud would bring as much to the economy as baby wipes.
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_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Founding Fathers: The Answers to our economic Woes?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

But yes, the biggest impact would be to simply cut government spending in all areas and let the government employees go out and get productive real jobs in the free market rather than being leaches on US citizens pocketbooks.


We'd be in a depression if government had not stepped in and saved the economy. It is ironic how much anti-government sentiment has been brewing ever since. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not experience a depression. Slash all government spending? As if the million+ government employees could just go find jobs because you say so. The fact is there aren't enough jobs in the marketplace, and corporations do not give a damn about America or Americans. They'd rather hire non-Americans who negotiate a much lower wage.
_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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