Promise him Heaven: Will Heber ever win?

[_Darth J]

Has anyone ever asked a TBM or an apologist if he would let his wife marry Thomas S. Monson if President Monson told him God commanded it, and gotten a straight answer?

I have tried, but have not been able to get a straight answer to this question.

If I believed it was a command from God, I would. If my wife so believed, she would too. In fact, I'll bet you would too.

You lose that bet, because there is no possible circumstance where I would believe in a God who would want me to pimp my wife or teenage daughter to the prophet.

But okay, BC. You're faithful. What if the prophet told you God commanded you to marry him and have a homosexual relationship?

"That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another."

Would you do it, or is there any limit at all on what you're willing to believe God will decree on behalf of his prophets' sexuality?

Or are you just more righteous because where you draw the line is farther away than where the rest of Western civilization would draw the line?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Darth,

You lose that bet, because there is no possible circumstance where I would believe in a God who would want me to pimp my wife or teenage daughter to the prophet.

But okay, BC. You're faithful. What if the prophet told you God commanded you to marry him and have a homosexual relationship?

"That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another."

Would you do it, or is there any limit at all on what you're willing to believe God will decree on behalf of his prophets' sexuality?

Or are you just more righteous because where you draw the line is farther away than where the rest of Western civilization would draw the line?

You make an excellent point in this question to BC.

Of course BC (and other believers), would think there is nothing wrong with giving his wife or fourteen year old daughter to TSM for sexual purposes. I doubt BC would think twice if TSM called him up and told him he would receive eternal life so long as he complied.

The real question is, as you suggest, would a member do something they believe is wrong if God commanded it via a prophet.

For most of the civilized world, selling a child for sex in exchange for a reward, amounts to horrific abuse, but for those who are fine with it, another measure must be used to gauge ones worthiness.;-)

[_lostindc]

Now, moksha, you know very well that any militant cafeteria Mormons who respond to your OP are going to have more excuses than a pregnant nun as to why Joseph Smith telling a member of the Church that God revealed that they were supposed to do something is "not doctrine."

And you also already know that Joseph Smith gets absolute moral immunity: whatever he did was inspired and righteous, even though another person doing the exact same thing would be an abomination.

Why hate on the cafeteria Mormon? We already have no allies on either side of the isle. You asked:

Has anyone ever asked a TBM or an apologist if he would let his wife marry Thomas S. Monson if President Monson told him God commanded it, and gotten a straight answer?

This is a good question. For me, I would say no immediately and likely be damned to hell by the Church, but that is just me. But I am not sure that I qualify to answer this question because I am not sure I qualify as a TBM. In fact, I have no idea where I stand in the Church in terms of categories.

[_Redefined]

Has anyone ever asked a TBM or an apologist if he would let his wife marry Thomas S. Monson if President Monson told him God commanded it, and gotten a straight answer?

I totally would have been Mrs. Hinckley #33 if this scenario had happened! My Mom wouldn't even blink an eye, before accepting the proposition, and sadly enough, I can't say for sure if my Dad would have even objected. . . given that it's a commandment and all and all the blessings and apparent favor they must be in with the Lord, that their own daughter would be given such an honor. And my little ol' totally indoctrinated 14-year-old self wouldn't have even thought that I could be being lied to, and my parents could be wrong.

[_moksha]

So doctrinally speaking, can one actually gain Celestial glory by giving up their underage daughter or did Heber make a fools bargain?

[_Darth J]

Why hate on the cafeteria Mormon? We already have no allies on either side of the isle.

For the record, Lost, I do not consider you to be a militant cafeteria Mormon.

[_bcspace]

If I believed it was a command from God, I would. If my wife so believed, she would too. In fact, I'll bet you would too.

And if your 14 year old daughter didn't think it was a command from God like you and your wife do, then what would you do?

Acknowledge her agency,

So doctrinally speaking, can one actually gain Celestial glory by giving up their underage daughter

Doesn't appear to be the case. Obedience to God is what does it.

You make an excellent point in this question to BC.

Of course BC (and other believers), would think there is nothing wrong with giving his wife or fourteen year old daughter to TSM for sexual purposes. I doubt BC would think twice if TSM called him up and told him he would receive eternal life so long as he complied.

The real question is, as you suggest, would a member do something they believe is wrong if God commanded it via a prophet.

For most of the civilized world, selling a child for sex in exchange for a reward, amounts to horrific abuse, but for those who are fine with it, another measure must be used to gauge ones worthiness.;-)

Presentism. It's already been established that marriage to teens in those times was not necessarily frowned upon.

You lose that bet, because there is no possible circumstance where I would believe in a God who would want me to pimp my wife or teenage daughter to the prophet.

No, I win that bet because if you knew it was from God, you would obey.

But okay, BC. You're faithful. What if the prophet told you God commanded you to marry him and have a homosexual relationship?

Same as before. Determine if such a command was from God.

[_harmony]

And if your 14 year old daughter didn't think it was a command from God like you and your wife do, then what would you do?

Acknowledge her agency,

Oh for crying out loud! That is so bogus! You would most assuredly NOT acknolwedge her agency. You'd pressure her and pressure her until she gave in... just like Heber did! You are so full of horsemanure![/quote]

[_Redefined]

How 'bout acknowledge some child psychology, and realize how indoctrination would factor.

[_Darth J]

No, I win that bet because if you knew it was from God, you would obey.

If you knew that Cthulhu commanded you to practice human sacrifice, you would obey.

Same as before. Determine if such a command was from God.

Has anyone else here who lost their faith in the LDS Church felt like you had a reverse lobotomy? You know: your lobotomy got fixed?

EDIT: So if you had warm fuzzies about having gay sex with Thomas Monson, you would do it. Thanks for sharing.

Too bad I couldn't maintain my faith in the arbitrary God who makes up the rules as he goes along. I guess I'll have to try to believe in a rational, consistent God instead.