Joseph's Laced Wine

[_moksha]

My point is, these types of beings are often encountered under the influence of entheogens.

So no entheogens then no Wood Nymphs, eh? There seems to be a fly in so many ointments.

.

[_Willy Law]

Allright I guess I am little slow. What is the importance of wood nymphs?

[Anonymous]

.

[_Willy Law]

Couple of quick questions.
Have you ever seen any accounts of people being able to see dead friends or relatives using entheogens?
In your opinion is this a case of people being able to see beyond our natural world and into some other dimension? Or is this a case of people's minds playing tricks on them under the influence of entheogens?

[Anonymous]

.

[_Willy Law]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but 8 months ago I would have not taken you seriously or given much thought to what you are saying. It is amazing how your mind opens up to other points of view once you step out of the Mormon fish bowl.
One of the greatest parts of my disaffection has been realizing I no longer have all the answers and start searching for them for yourself
Thanks for the information. Not sure what to make of all of it, but it sure fits when you read early accounts of the visions of Joseph and the early members..

[_Redefined]

Ezias, but the mind is such a wonderous thing. Wouldn't you agree that it has the capacity to create even beyond what you might imagine it could? Take dreams for instance. Haven't you ever woken up out of a "where the Hell, did that come from" sort of dream? And it's so variable when you enter any sort of mind-altering substance into the mix. How can you positively attribute this to any kind of supernatural event over just a simple matter of the brilliancy of the human mind?

[_Jeneum]

Ezias, but the mind is such a wonderous thing. Wouldn't you agree that it has the capacity to create even beyond what you might imagine it could? Take dreams for instance. Haven't you ever woken up out of a "where the Hell, did that come from" sort of dream? And it's so variable when you enter any sort of mind-altering substance into the mix. How can you positively attribute this to any kind of supernatural event over just a simple matter of the brilliancy of the human mind?

I know this was addressed to Ezias, but I'm new here, so forgive me ;)

I side with Ezias (at least I think I do...let me know if I'm wrong) in that I believe the entheogenic experience is not simply a product of the mind, but is an actual encounter with something beyond this realm of existence. Whether you want to call it the spirit world, tapping into the Universal Mind, a bardo, or anything else, it is the same. I don't believe our minds are capable of producing such an all-encompassing experience, even with the aid of a drug.

There are just too many similarities amongst people's entheogenic experiences with the so-called "near death experience" which erupts from within, without the taking of a drug. Where do these spontaneous experiences arise from, then? With smoked N,N-DMT, I was absolutely coherent and able to form thoughts as I can right now sober, but I was utterly convinced that I was out of body. I felt my spirit leave my body and absorb into the universal spirit, all the while observing and feeling the most amazing things anybody could possibly ever think of. I guess I could say "I know that my experiences are true" haha. They felt absolutely real, and the sheer magnitude of such experiences will make you believe, without a doubt, that they are real. It is a tremendous experience, and something I believe everybody needs to have before they die.

Could it be a product of the mind? I suppose it could. But why? They say that reality is stranger than fiction, and the psychedelic experience is just about as strange as you can get. These are just my personal beliefs on the matter, after all the otherworldly traveling I've done with psychedelics. They are what helped me get over Mormonism, after all, so I have a pretty intense bond with those experiences.

[_Redefined]

Hi Jeneum,
Just an acknowledgement. Welcome to the board. Thanks for you thoughts, I'm sure you and Ezias will have a lot to talk about! :)

I have no experience with mind-altering drugs of any sort other than alcohol and maybe prescribed pain medicines. But realizing what I have about the human brain, I remain skeptical. I'm not skeptical about paranormal experiences per say, I just would be careful to attribute a "trip" as something paranormal, when it could just be a matter of brain function.

[_Jeneum]

Hi Jeneum,
Just an acknowledgement. Welcome to the board. Thanks for you thoughts, I'm sure you and Ezias will have a lot to talk about! :)

I have no experience with mind-altering drugs of any sort other than alcohol and maybe prescribed pain medicines. But realizing what I have about the human brain, I remain skeptical. I'm not skeptical about paranormal experiences per say, I just would be careful to attribute a "trip" as something paranormal, when it could just be a matter of brain function.

Thanks for the welcome :) I hope to fit in here well, after not fitting in at MADB for a couple of years. I'm not as smart as most people on here, and not as well versed in the finer points of philosophical conversation, but I do know a ton about Mormon history/development of doctrine, so maybe I'll be able to add more than just my crazy rants (as demonstrated above).

Before I took DMT, I would have agreed with you: the human brain can remarkably elicit mystical experience on the drop of a dime. I thought "hey, this is nothing that would ever happen to me, but it DOES happen to other people, so it must stem from changes in brain chemistry or mental illness." I can no longer reside in such a rational frame of mind, because of my experiences. Those are experiences which can't be put into words which will do them justice, so I realize it is hard to debate about this kind of stuff.

To say that psychedelics have changed my life and made me a much more spiritual person than Mormonism ever could have would be an understatement. I feel as if Mormonism was a wall I had to break through to get to where I am now, and psychedelics have been a tremendous help in that regard.

I realize I sound crazy to most people, but I wouldn't have it any other way!