Jr. Tier Hamba Tuhan Embarrassed by Honorentheos

[_Gadianton]

In the spirit of the Fourth of July, I feel a post on the constitution is in order. Over on the board aptly named MAD, a junior apologist called Asaph emerges to ask a question, his soul is vexed,

I was trying to witness to a colleague of mine last week about Prophets. Of course Amos 3:7 always comes into the dicussion and the question I got was basically "what does your prophet know that we don't or can't find out". I was kind of in a spot becuase, to be honest, I have felt a little bit the same lately too and this coment kind of brought it out on the table. Can someone help me turn this ecounter to a testimony strengthener?

Junior Tier apologist Hamba Tuhan has just the right answer,

When I was young, back in the early 90s, I happened upon a book which the First Presidency and the Twelve had commisioned way back in the 70s when the Church was officially opposing the Equal Rights Amendment in the US. In it, the case was made why the Church would oppose such an amendment despite not being opposed to the concept of women having equal rights per se. In one chapter, the author (Dallin Oaks, who was then a lawyer whom the Apostles had asked to present their case for them) explained that the wording of the proposed amendment was such ('Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex') that it would be virtually impossible in future to fight in the courts against such things as same-sex marriage...

Wow, maybe Oaks is a prophet? Could it be that through the divine tutelage of Jesus Christ within the Holy of Holies, Oaks revealed the mystery of slippery-slope argumentation to the world for the first time?

Asaph is overjoyed with Hamba's response, I guess he's really going to sock it to his co-worker now!

Beautiful......thanks, that is what I was looking for. Much obliged!

After some back-patting from other junior apologists, Honorentheos jumps in,

I suppose I am the only one here who finds it hilarious that legal counsel opinion as occurs all the time is advanced as prophetic foresight. To anachronistically project the modern SSM debate as the main reason for the church's ERA opposition is ridiculous. This was but one of a number of opposing arguments being made by STOP and other anti-ERA organizations. To make this argument is to water down the notion of "prophecy" even lower. Besides, it also implies the Dalin Oaks got his job because...well. We'll leave it at that.

LOL! Ouch! How embarrassing for young Hamba! It turns out that once again the Church has been caught proffering right-wing talk radio as prophecy! Ha ha ha ha -- this is what you guys pay 10% of your income to get? Let's hope Asaph's co-worker doesn't have access to the internet!

Merry Miss A apologist Deborah raises her head from the sand long enough to object to Honorentheos's thorough trouncing of Hamba Tuhan,

I doubt that you know anything about it. I know that they have knowledge of things that they don't always reveal

She's sounding like the Maxwell Institute, in all fairness. I'm reminded of a saying from the late author Douglas Adams, "Just because I'm crazy, doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

Hamba Tuhan isn't deterred from coming up with an apologetic for the prophets,

Out of the literally infinite number of things which may be believed by others, prophets are led and inspired to emphasise certain things as they bear witness of the Saviour and call us to repentance, having their vision extended in both space and time by virtue of their high callings.

OMG! Imagine if Asaph has to go back to his co-worker and explain that Oaks didn't predict the slippery slope from equal rights to gay marriage after all, but he was a prophet because he emphasized right-wing political hype! If Asaph's co-worker comma, I guess this knowledge about the ERA could be something he couldn't have known.

But young Hamba keeps trying to score a point.

So, based on Hamba's response, we can say safely that the legal advise of Dalin Oaks, prior to his apostleship and in review of a legal opinion that did not actually originate with the brethren, is a good example of modern day revelation?

It's clear you never actually read the book. It was commissioned by the Brethren specifically to explain to a completely secular audience how and why Church leaders could oppose the ERA without being in favour of suppressing women.

So while Oaks's argument was entirely derivative and emphasized by everyone opposed to ERA, the real answer to Asaph's query is that Oaks translated the slippery slope into a language that a secular audience could understand. No one, save a prophet of God, could have done that. Asaph's co-worker may yet be moved by the possibility; that is, if he is put in a cell and subjected to sleep deprivation for the next ten years.

These junior apologists are really coming along. Let's face it, they have the basic techniques of the MI pretty much nailed down.

[_harmony]

Asaph should just bring up earrings.

[_honorentheos]

Thanks for the support, Gadianton. Threads like this (the MADb thread) really, really make me miss the old days when many more qualified participants would have been all over that little ditty, yet it is also more likely that the apologetic supporters would have presented higher quality examples in response to the OP. My hat is off to Darth J for joining in and keeping it interesting.

I hate to say this, as I try to stay out of the "their board-our board" conflict, but it had been quite a while since I dropped by MADB. Tarski's thread about "atleast it will be read" on this board sparked my interest so I checked in this weekend. The thing that really bothered me was how uninteresting most of the threads were, and how rote the whole narrative had become in the more promising ones.

[_moksha]

Good for Honorentheos. I hope Dallin Oaks' legal fee was equal to its ability to draw upon the arguments and reasoning of Billy Bob and the other swamp folk when they wanted to keep the women in their place.

[_Darth J]

Thanks for the support, Gadianton. Threads like this (the MADb thread) really, really make me miss the old days when many more qualified participants would have been all over that little ditty, yet it is also more likely that the apologetic supporters would have presented higher quality examples in response to the OP. My hat is off to Darth J for joining in and keeping it interesting.

I hate to say this, as I try to stay out of the "their board-our board" conflict, but it had been quite a while since I dropped by MADB. Tarski's thread about "atleast it will be read" on this board sparked my interest so I checked in this weekend. The thing that really bothered me was how uninteresting most of the threads were, and how rote the whole narrative had become in the more promising ones.

You mean how it's just a pep rally for the faithful?

[_honorentheos]

The thing that really bothered me was how uninteresting most of the threads were, and how rote the whole narrative had become in the more promising ones.

You mean how it's just a pep rally for the faithful?

Exactly.

[_harmony]

You mean how it's just a pep rally for the faithful?

Exactly.

What did you expect, when Juliann leads the cheerleading squad and Dan is the team captain?

[_Gadianton]

Darth J joined the thread, swung his light saber around, and now there's just a pile of empty cloaks.

The junior apologists have given up and admitted that the prophet doesn't know anything that we don't know, or if he does, there is no way to demonstrate it. I hope Asaph doesn't log in and check the thread out again, he's going to be depressed.

Wade Englund, the senior most junior-tier apologist showed up and gently corrected Asaph's question asking. Asaph, who was merely relaying the question from his co-worker, has the alternative option now of telling his co-worker that he asked the wrong question. In the future, the non-member co-worker should ask complex questions like, "How does it affect your life, Asaph, knowing that your church leaders know things that no one else in the world could ever hope to?" or "Asaph, my friend, I've felt relaxed and generally good all over during lunch today, thanks for buying. Tell me, which of these feelings that I've had this afternoon are testifying to me that Dallin Oaks is a true prophet?"

[_honorentheos]

Interesting turn of event in this thread while I was at work today. It seems that Zee and Darth J both were banned from the thread for cutting too close to the quick.

It was fun while it lasted.

[_Darth J]

Interesting turn of event in this thread while I was at work today. It seems that Zee and Darth J both were banned from the thread for cutting too close to the quick.

It was fun while it lasted.

What? Why did I get banned?