Joseph's Laced Wine

[Anonymous]

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[_Jeneum]

There are many cases of illness and coma during the early days of the church that were deemed "of the devil" of "of God" when visions of angels or demons were encountered. See Robert Beckstead's work.

by the way I don't subscribe to all of Beckstead's ideas, I criticize many of them, and I think it is likely that the visions and pandaemonium in the temple was similar to a pentecostal revival, no drugs involved. However, there is remarkable evidence that Smith himself used entheogens, and the fact that he was accused of lacing the wine suggests that he quite possibly could have on some limited occasions. I think group consciousness and crowd psychology applied to the visions in the temple. Everyone was in a frenzy. I think is fed upon itself and people got all riled up and saw visions or said they did.

Smith's experiences could be due to natural psychic abilities. He likely aided these with the use of entheogens but his visions could have been occasioned without drugs. He had an OBE when being tarred and feathered for example, no drugs involved.

The likelihood he employed some kind of entheogen is strong considering his magical background and alchemical roots, which incorporate entheogens in hidden symbolism. In fact, anyone familiar with the history of the Catholic church can see mushrooms drawn on it's walls and as fountains at the vatican, enigmatically hiding the entheogen behind the religion. It is quite possible Smith had discovered this, since so many others had as is recored in sacred church art.

See http://www.gnosticmedia.com

Ah nice. I was not aware of that. I'll have to check this Beckstead fellow out.

I agree with you in your thoughts about the Kirtland Temple episode. It was no doubt a very powerful experience for all those involved.

As for the Gnostic Media podcast, I've been a fan for a long while now. I am not a fan of Jan Irvin, however. I think he does a great disservice to our community because of his insistence that his views (other than those found in his "Pharmacratic Inquisition") are absolutely right. There have been a few times, on forums related to the topic of entheogens, where he has been awfully nasty and hostile to people who don't agree with him for whatever reason. I find that troubling.

Just like Allegro's work before him, I think Jan suffers from an incredibly provincial mindset. He doesn't seem to want to take into account any information which counters his theories. Do I think that mushrooms were used in early Christianity? Undoubtedly. Do I think they were used to the extent that Jan argues? Absolutely not. I do not buy the notion that the story of Jesus Christ, or of his sacrifice, is nothing more than rehashed mushroom mysticism. Sure, there is some limited evidence that this may be the case, but I believe there to be a whole lot more evidence to the contrary.

I do believe the entheogenic experience is what prompted our ancestors to begin religious worship, much like Terence McKenna argues. But I think as time went on entheogens were brushed aside as a way to control the followers of a given religion. Thank God people are beginning to find the "old religion," as it were, once again.

[_Willy Law]

Finally was able to listen to the podcast ( http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/entry/2010-05-31T13_14_58-07_00 )
A little like a Dan Brown novel but very interesting.
I think it would make a great Mormon Expressions podcast if any of you have John Larsen's ear.
I would question him on a couple of things, mainly that everyone seems to be in agreement that Datura is dangerous and unstable to use as a entheogen yet Robert maintains that is just what Joseph did in Kirtland.
I love the how all the puzzle pieces fit together in regards to the peyote stone and tree of life in the Nauvoo endowment.
I think it would be great to hear him on ME, I would like to hear him get more in depth in regards to Mormon history. For example his take on the 8 and 3 witnesses etc.
Really interesting podcast.

[Anonymous]

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[_Buffalo]

This doesn't explain the visions I've had as I wasn't drunk or taking any form of hallucinogenic. I suppose it's possible that teachers are lacing the sacramental bread or water but as I often prepared it I would think I'd be in on the scam.

Did my companion poison me? How about when I lived alone? Is the city poisoning my water supply?

It's possible that you don't throw out your moldy bread/cheese soon enough. Or it's possible that you suffer from hallucinations.

[_Nomad]

For some reason, this whole discussion reminds me of something we read yesterday during our gospel doctrine discussion:

Acts 2

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

11 … we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Truly there is no new thing under the sun …

[_Buffalo]

For some reason, this whole discussion reminds me of something we read yesterday during our gospel doctrine discussion:

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Truly there is no new thing under the sun …

Good point! I wonder if the original day of Pentecost was fueled by something similar? Maybe some moldy bread?