Jr. Tier Hamba Tuhan Embarrassed by Honorentheos

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Thanks for the support, Gadianton. Threads like this (the MADb thread) really, really make me miss the old days when many more qualified participants would have been all over that little ditty, yet it is also more likely that the apologetic supporters would have presented higher quality examples in response to the OP. My hat is off to Darth J for joining in and keeping it interesting.

I hate to say this, as I try to stay out of the "their board-our board" conflict, but it had been quite a while since I dropped by MADB. Tarski's thread about "atleast it will be read" on this board sparked my interest so I checked in this weekend. The thing that really bothered me was how uninteresting most of the threads were, and how rote the whole narrative had become in the more promising ones.

You mean how it's just a pep rally for the faithful?

That and EFY and stake conference, and general conference, and sunday Mormon services, and LDS scouts, and mutal, and YW, and... and...

[_honorentheos]

Interesting turn of event in this thread while I was at work today. It seems that Zee and Darth J both were banned from the thread for cutting too close to the quick.

It was fun while it lasted.

What? Why did I get banned?

It appears this was the offending post - "I see. Since no one can answer the original OP, we'll just strengthen testimonies by saying nice things about how prophets are important."

I hadn't visited the site until after work, so I was more than a little shocked to see that both you and Zee had been banned today. And, given that both of you were banned for basically giving voice to uncomfortable truths, I also found it more than a bit ironic that it occurred in a thread littered with references to people turning a deaf ear to prophets crying repentance.

[_Darth J]

What? Why did I get banned?

It appears this was the offending post - "I see. Since no one can answer the original OP, we'll just strengthen testimonies by saying nice things about how prophets are important."

I hadn't visited the site until after work, so I was more than a little shocked to see that both you and Zee had been banned today. And, given that both of you were banned for basically giving voice to uncomfortable truths, I also found it more than a bit ironic that it occurred in a thread littered with references to people turning a deaf ear to prophets crying repentance.

So selek can talk about me spewing filth and hatred and dripping spittle, and Jeff K. can reflexively call me a troll when he finds my questions disturbing, and USU78 can strongly imply that I am a servant of Satan, but my comment that is indisputably true of that thread gets me kicked out. Yep, that's MAD for you.

"Truth will prevail!"

(The moderators will see to that)

[_honorentheos]

Hi Darth J,

Personally I've always found seleks presence on the board to be a good gauge of how things are going over at MAD. The more active selek is, the worse things must be going for the believers on the board. And frankly, I think he and Pahoran, along with Jeff K, are better than any critics in presenting real-world arguments against the validity of the LDS church.

It's kind of like having Chris Farley sell Weight Watchers.

I think part of the strategy of banning critics is a tacit recognition that a good argument against the church brings out the absolute worst in some of the posters.

That said, they do get wearisome to deal with. Selek still owes me his ante in a thread I started over the weekend after he seemed to think he could bluff his way out of the game before we even started playing cards -

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/50089-criticisms-of-the-church/

Whatever. It's the nature of the game over there.

[_Runtu]

Whatever. It's the nature of the game over there.

Some astute observations. And yes, in the end that's all it is: a game. It's not life and death or eternally significant. Just a silly little meaningless game.

[_Darth J]

Hi Darth J,

Personally I've always found seleks presence on the board to be a good gauge of how things are going over at MAD. The more active selek is, the worse things must be going for the believers on the board. And frankly, I think he and Pahoran, along with Jeff K, are better than any critics in presenting real-world arguments against the validity of the LDS church.

It's kind of like having Chris Farley sell Weight Watchers.

I think part of the strategy of banning critics is a tacit recognition that a good argument against the church brings out the absolute worst in some of the posters.

That said, they do get wearisome to deal with. Selek still owes me his ante in a thread I started over the weekend after he seemed to think he could bluff his way out of the game before we even started playing cards -

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/50089-criticisms-of-the-church/

Whatever. It's the nature of the game over there.

First of all, +5.

Second, "If truth causes change in your organization, it is because it was previously lacking beforehand, not because the facts themselves are malicious."

That is something that true believers cannot wrap their heads around.

[_moksha]

Hi Darth J,
I think part of the strategy of banning critics is a tacit recognition that a good argument against the church brings out the absolute worst in some of the posters.

One problem which they must be aware of but are unable to address, is that in any harsh or shoddy treatment they may give to agreeable posters like Runtu, many current or future readers of those threads will be offended by that harsh and shoddy treatment. They will ask what truth can be proffered from a group that must resort to ill treatment of such posters.

This problem is compounded when they must bring forth the ogre-like posters to do combat with them.

[_honorentheos]

Hi Darth J,
I think part of the strategy of banning critics is a tacit recognition that a good argument against the church brings out the absolute worst in some of the posters.

One problem which they must be aware of but are unable to address, is that in any harsh or shoddy treatment they may give to agreeable posters like Runtu, many current or future readers of those threads will be offended by that harsh and shoddy treatment. They will ask what truth can be proffered from a group that must resort to ill treatment of such posters.

This problem is compounded when they must bring forth the ogre-like posters to do combat with them.

It's a sad commentary on the board that they banned you even before the purge. No sense of humor, I guess. :)

[_honorentheos]

Whatever. It's the nature of the game over there.

Some astute observations. And yes, in the end that's all it is: a game. It's not life and death or eternally significant. Just a silly little meaningless game.

Hi Runtu,

I agree, with a slight caveat.

I left the boards back in 2006-07 after my initial period of struggle (actually about 2-3 years, but who was counting?) I did not see any way I could continue to post without increasing my anger, which I did not want to do. I saw the results on many boards and felt it was best to walk away.

That changed as the same-sex marriage/Prop 8 debate began to come into full swing. Don't get me wrong, I am very much in favor of the democratic process and any change that impacts a venerated social institution such as marriage should be vigorously debated in the public and political arena. I personally support SSM, but do not see opposition in and of itself as wrong.

What got to me was how many people were actively opposed to the California ruling, and thus supporting the proposed constitutional changes in multiple states, not because of rigorous debate, but simply because their Bible or their prophet told them it was right to do so, and they were fighting for God's own cause.

I came back to MAD to read some of what was being said, and could not remain silent.

Since then, I have one simple aim. Encourage sufficient doubt in the role of the prophet-parent, that LDS adults assume responsibility to think for themselves.

[_honorentheos]

Second, "If truth causes change in your organization, it is because it was previously lacking beforehand, not because the facts themselves are malicious."

That is something that true believers cannot wrap their heads around.

Thanks, Darth J.

I'm somewhat faciniated with this idea right now. That being that the average person may not be able to actually see evidence that is contrary to their view. The worldview blindspot that assumed belief creates makes a compelling case study for me.

I also think this point is the single biggest leap that every person who steps away from the church has to make. One has to distance one's self-identity from that of the faith sufficiently so one can "see" the evidence against it for what it is- simple information and "truth", without feeling it is a personal attack.

I'm in the middle of another case study on another thread on the MAD board right now. We'll see where it goes, I guess.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/50156-he-was-speaking-toaddressing-different-groups-support-for-this-excuse/page__st__20__gopid__1208876215