The Commercials, an interesting read

[_Simon Belmont]

Cards on the table. I know you don't know me from anyone else on this board. Not yet, at least. :-) I'm not LDS nor have I ever been LDS.

What is your motivation for posting on Mormondiscussions?

We don't get enough LDS on this board and I'd like to see you stay. If I seem to be strident in the way that I approach you, it's only because the rest of the community is going to nail you to the wall if you don't learn to stop dancing around and eventually, you'll dance out the door and we'll be down one more LDS.

It is not a surprise that LDS do not stay here long. I imagine that some think "oh, Mormon Discussions, maybe I can talk about my upcoming priesthood lesson and get some pointers" then they run into disrespectful and offensive people like Joseph Inc., and demagogues like Doctor Scratch.

You already know what this place is and what content you're likely to read here. You put a man's head on the image of a woman's body in a bikini and claimed that if if was offensive you'd take it down.

It was just a joke, which I thought Paul could handle since I had observed his joking nature. I will still edit my post and remove the picture, but other people have already quoted it, unfortunately.

You have to admit, it was pretty mild. I do apologize to Paul if it did offend him. Apparently people can be offensive to myself and other LDS, but we cannot be offensive back.

Me: You should be refuting the statements in the OP, not playing "my knowledge is bigger than your knowledge" games.

If your knowledge is more extensive than the OP, then demonstrate it. Go through it line by line and decimate it.

I want posters like Joseph Inc. to know that they cannot get away with posting highly offensive, unsubstantiated claims. If the claims are true, those posters are welcome to back them up. (for example, Joseph's asinine claim that the Church hates Linux).

[_Simon Belmont]

Well blemont, looks like you are getting the what for from those on the forum.

Huh? What is the "what for?"

What do I know of Joseph Smith. Too much, and some of it through direct family ties to "The Prophet" and his family.

That has nothing to do with whether you know anything about Joseph Smith.

Too much, some of it through direct family ties to those who were virulent Anti-Mormons and even murdered a number of them. Possibly a few who were in the crowd at Carthage though no proof of that is in any family records like at Hauns Mill and Nauvoo.

And you condone their actions by verbally attacking Mormons to this day. Classy.

I have been in the homes of many in the higher leadership positions of LDS.

So?

I have seen and held Boyd K. Packers paintings and some of Dallin Oaks books, in their homes.

Wow.

Spencer W. Kimball, LeGrand Richhards, even Paul Dunn, among many others. I have been in the homes and stayed with a number of General Authorities through the years. I have been on the Stand at General Conference in a number of sessions. Look in some older photos of some sessions and I am there. Suit, tie, white shirt and the whole deal, looking just like a mini-mafia soldier.

This has nothing to do with your knowledge of Joseph Smith.

I have even been taken on a personal tour through the upper rooms of The Temple in SLC and Manti with a few GA's and seen and looked into the Holy of Holies, though not stepped through the doors.

Okay?

Not all who post on these forums are no nothings when it comes to LDS.

I maintain that you are, until you demonstrate otherwise. For an example of your ignorance, see your thread about how the Church hates Linux (LOL!).

Just don't enter into 'challenges' unless you are willing to actually go through with them.

I asked what you knew about Joseph Smith: how many books you've read, and how many (if any) research papers you've written. Until you say otherwise, the answer is 0.

[_SoHo]

Bernie Madoff is a douche.

I have written no research papers to back up this claim.

I am unlikely to be dissuaded by sympathetic pieces to the contrary.

I am not wrong.

[_Simon Belmont]

Bernie Madoff is a douche.

I have written no research papers to back up this claim.

I am unlikely to be dissuaded by sympathetic pieces to the contrary.

I am not wrong.

The Bernie Madoff scandal happened within your lifetime. He is not subject to historical interpretation. You were, in essence there!

[_SoHo]

Bernie Madoff is a douche.

I have written no research papers to back up this claim.

I am unlikely to be dissuaded by sympathetic pieces to the contrary.

I am not wrong.

The Bernie Madoff scandal happened within your lifetime. He is not subject to historical interpretation. You were, in essence there!

Al Copone was a douche.

I have written no research papers to back up this claim.

I am unlikely to be dissuaded by sympathetic pieces to the contrary.

I am not wrong.

[_MCB]

Too much, some of it through direct family ties to those who were virulent Anti-Mormons and even murdered a number of them. Possibly a few who were in the crowd at Carthage though no proof of that is in any family records like at Hauns Mill and Nauvoo.

Not to derail this thread, Joseph, but have you seen this list? If none of your ancestors is named here, then it is highly unlikely that any of them were among the "crowd" at Carthage. And just because one might be named on this list does not necessarily mean that he was there.

Captain Harrison P. Crawford
Farmers Guards: Richard Barnett (1st Lieut.), John Harris (2nd Lieut.), John Slattery (3rd Lieut.), John R. Williams (1st Sergeant), John Crawford (2nd Sergeant), David Headly (3rd Sergeant), Thomas Knox (4th Sergeant), Madison Stockton (1st Corporal), John W. Clark (2nd Corporal), Hampton R. Stockton (3rd Corporal), Harrison Crawford (4th Corporal), Privates: John T. Carnes, William D. Knox, Carey Headley, Rice C. Williams, William L. Black, William Vorhies, Frances M. House, Lewis Nickleson, William Goodwin, Alexander Goodwin, Jacob Ankrom, John Goodwin, Melton W. Knox, Sylvester Hopson, Charles Hopson, William Denny, George W. Clark, Rodney Hickman, Thomas Marston, William Crawford, William Yanewine, William Doughty, Augustus Black, William Ayres, G. Broadway, Richard B. Taylor, Septimus Goodwin, Thomas Taylor, John Gillham, Robertson Gillham, James Doughty, George Wallace, George Carnes, H. J. Benton, Nelson Leopole, Lyman Calkin, Luther Headley, Rodolphus Chandler, Robert Gillham, Jeremiah Bentley, Gilbert R. Parsons, Henry C. Williams, Eli D. Walker, Andrew McMahan, William Taylor, Abraham Hatchett, Pliny Hatchett, Joseph W. Harris, Samuel Knox, Benjamin Collins, Benjamin Hopson, James S. Agard, Zachariah Barnett, Jamison A. Ankrom, William Slattery, Francis Kerns, Theodore E. Dickerson, Melton Whips.

Exhibit B
Captain Alexander Weires
Green Plains Minute Men: Charles C. Stevens (1st Lieut.), John Banks (2nd Lieut.), Obadiah S. Freeman (3rd Lieut.), Thomas D. Crumpton (1st Sergeant), Philip Ensmingher (2nd Sergeant), James Carmine (3rd Sergeant), Adam Snyder (1st Corporal), Samuel Holmes (2nd Corporal), Luther Perry (3rd Corporal), William Exon (Driver), O. S. Freeman (Driver), David Ayres (Driver), Privates: Joseph Barber, John C. Thompson, John Morrison, Daniel Clark, Samuel Large, William H. Black, Samuel Ray, David Gibson, Adam McDaniel, Jehue Walls, Henry Nickols, Franklin Farmer, Abraham C. Clark, Joseph Caldwell, Joseph Lambert, Meredith Perry, Joel Weston, John White, James H. Ward, Joseph Tilburn, George Morrison, John Truman, Stephen Roach, Philip Leper, Michael Andrews, Purnel Lewis, George Shafer, George C. Baker, Oliver P. Baker, Lyman Wails, Theophilus Crenshaw, Isaac Wilson, Paschal Crenshaw, John Crenshaw, Thomas Hopper, John Caldwell, Dempsey Caldwell, Benjamin Nelson, Aaron Vanwinkle, John Large, John McElroy, Noah Caldwell, George Walker, Matthew Caldwell, William Guyman, Hampton Loftice.

Exhibit C
Captain John R. Atherton
Appanoose Company: Joseph Tull (1st Lieut.), Samuel M. Hamilton (2nd Lieut.), Joseph Agnew (1st Sergeant), John R. Tull (2nd Sergeant), William Rose (3rd Sergeant), Isaac Willsey (4th Sergeant), Peter Willsey (1st Corporal), Byard Laton (2nd Corporal), William Tull (4th Corporal), Privates: Jeremiah Hall, Robert Atherton, John Lake, Henry Williams, James Bennum, William M. Pratt, John Cooper, Griffin Cooper, Jonathan Lamine, L. A. Stephenson, John Martin, Amzi Doolittle, Samuel Brown, Reuben Tull, John Garner, David Garvin, Amos Perry, James Gray, Berryman Jennings, C. G. Vanburn, John McClure, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Rose, Benanual Hoag, Wesley M. Thomas, Samuel Knapp, W. H. Rollison, George Myers, William Loomis, Zephaniah Tyson, John Vantassel, James Griffith, Egbert Goodwin, John Riley, Zeddie Hoag, Edward Langford, Henry Daily, Lewis Nealey, Henry Marr, P. A. Goodwin, Samuel Marten, Patrick Gillmore, George Nallis, James Gillmore, John Gurrell, Flan Sheridan, James Sheridan, John Sheridan, Henry Cooley, John C. Tull, Isaac Seatt, Charles Yarbrough.

Exhibit D
Captain George Buchanan
Camp Creek Independent Company: John E. Caldwell (Lieut.), James McLaughlin (Lieut.), Loving Hastings (Lieut.), James Spillman (Lieut.), William Nixon (Sergeant), Ben Logan (Sergeant), John Hobrick (Musician), Albert Logan (Musician), Thomas Leap (Corporal), Joseph Hardy (Corporal), Privates: Edward Graham, Thomas Weathered, William Logan, James Graham, Thomas Stephens, Jesse Winiss, C. D. Harver, Lyman Harkness, Warren L. Davis, James Adams, Oran Agnew, William Landis, William Godard, William Myers, James Buchanan, James Porter, William Tinsley, N. M. Hawthorn, Richard Welsh, John J. Thompson, Joseph Agnew, Edward McNall, William H. Logan, John Welch, Theodore Nixon, Milton Atherton, Benjamin Graham, Enoch A. Logan, Washington Graham, John Maguire, Oliver Avery, Samuel Logan, Daniel Austerberry, John Avis, Thomas Wells, Jonathan Logan, Joseph Atherton, John Graham, Michael Hilterbrand, Henry Avery, Simeon Avery, John Glines, Thomas Fielding, William Baldwin, Hiram Graham, Edward Davis, Thomas Hunter, Dennis Quick, John Papsmore, John Alexander, James D. Logan, Owen Mendenhall, W. W. McGlassen, Hanson Higgins, William Masacre, Larry Alexander, Samuel Simmons, Samuel Myers, John W. Part, Bassel Viney, John Logan, James Green.

Exhibit E
Captain George W. Pollard
Lima Guards: James Colvin (1st Lieut.), Harrison Archer (2nd Lieut.), Henry Newton (3rd Lieut.), John Hill (1st Sergeant), Sampson M. Archer (2nd Sergeant), James Mercer (Surgeon), Isaac Vinson (1st Corporal), Benjamin G. Pollard (2nd Corporal), William C. Wilson (Driver of Baggage wagon), James Wood (Driver of Baggage Wagon), Privates: Davis Hill, Jesse Workman, James Greenstreet, Isaac Strickland, James P. Archer, David Potter, Thomas G. Hill, James Kirby, John Califf, Joshua Vance, Thomas Taylor, Thomas Taylor Jr., Martin Taylor, David Taylor, Henry Schull, Peter Orr, David Riley, Carey Philips, James Goodwin, William T. Dazy, Hamilton Howard, William Peyton, Charles McMinis, George Stuart, Brice Stuart, John Pearson, Mitchell Dazy, William Shaw, Jason Strickland.

Exhibit F
Colonel Levi Williams
Officers and Staff of the 59th Regiment, 4th Brigade, 5th Division Illinois Militia
John McCauley (Lieut. Col.), Tarlton E. Fox (Major), Thomas Crawford (Adjutant), John E. Johnston (Quarter Master), Edson Whitney (Pay Master), Charles Hay (Surgeon), John Musselman (Commissary), John Crawford (Quarter Master Sergeant).

Exhibit G
Major Mark Aldrich
Officers and Staff of the Warsaw Independent Battalion
Henry Stephens (Adjutant), Edward A. Bedell (Quarter Master), James M. Charles (Pay Master).
Exhibit E (miscoded)
Farmers Guard of Independent Rifle Company, Warsaw Independent Battalion. Captain George W. Pollard, James Colvin (1st Lieut.), Harrison Archer (2nd Lieut.), Henry Newton (3rd Lieut.), John Hill (1st Sergeant), S. M. Archer (2nd Sergeant), James Mercer (3rd Sergeant), Isaac Vincent (1st Corporal), B. G. Pollard (2nd Corporal), Privates: Davis Hill, Jesse Workman, James Greenstreet, Isaac Strickland, James P. Archer, David Potter, Thomas J. Hill, James Kirby, John Califf, Josiah Vance, Thomas Taylor, Thomas Taylor Jr., Martin Taylor, David Taylor, Henry Schull, Peter Orr, David Riley, Carey Phillips, James Gooden, W. J. Dazy, Hamilton Howard, William Peyton, Charles Maines, George Stuart, Brice Stuart, John Pearson, Michael Dazy, William Shaw, Jason Strickland.

Exhibit H
Major Mark Aldrich
Captain William N. Grover
Warsaw Cadets: Samuel M. Brown (1st Lieut.), John Lawton (2nd Lieut.), James Chittenden (3rd Lieut.), Robert Miller (1st Sergeant), Alexander Mere (2nd Sergeant), William Ayres (3rd Sergeant), M. Logan (4th Sergeant), William Moore (1st Corporal), William W. Chittenden (2nd Corporal), Amos Thatcher (3rd Corporal), Jarvis Aldrich (4th Corporal), Privates: James H. Caruthers, Felix Williams, William Godfrey, William Ayres Jr., John Compton, Joseph Hardacre, Isaac Tiffey, Reuben Snively, John Burton, William Y. Head, German Andrews, George W. Hendricks, I. I. W. Hinchman, Luke H. Seely, James Demeris, Wilson Mundy, Isham Cochran, Thomas Wheelan, Christopher Stephens, W. C. Sprague, David Webb, George Leach, William H. Easton, John Thorp, Fisher Henbeck, Michael C. Ware, Nathan N. Allen, Andrew J. Eby, Perry E. Sprague, Eli Hilton, John Baker, Patrick Culleny, R. Worster, George Mail.

Exhibit I
Major Mark Aldrich
Captain J. C. Davis
Warsaw Rifle Company: William Baker (1st Lieut.), Benjamin F. Chandler (2nd Lieut.), Calvin Cole (3rd Lieut.), Willard Gay (1st Sergeant), John Scott (2nd Sergeant), James H. Woods (3rd Sergeant), John Frazier (4th Sergeant), E. R. Clemens (1st Corporal), George Payton (2nd Corporal), Jeremiah Smith (3rd Corporal), Daniel Lindsby (4th Corporal), Mark Phelps (drummer), Nathan Bennett (fifer), Privates: William Clark, William Stevens, Michael Duane, Charles Gallaher, William Botts, J. L. Mussetter, Hugh Havens, Jotham Clark, Joseph Snars, William Houch, E. J. Stevens, W. A. Warner, William Gallaher, B. F. Bledsoe, James Jenkins, S. R. Davison, William Hasford, Charles Forbes, William Fultz, Curtis Lippincott, Reubin Andrews, S. W. Athey, B. F. Johnson, James Byers, Hiram Heatman, E. Hackshaw, Daniel Wiley, Isaac Stevens, Patrick O'Neal, Weston Johnston, Joshua Cole, Robert Shortly, P. M. Lockwood, John Knox, William Roberts, John Cochran, John Woodard, J. H. Messendaugh, John Kaufman, Wesley Denny, William Hendricks, Patrick Gallaher, J. M. Jarboe, Ephraim Warner, G. H. Johnston, Robert Ayres, Tillman Fry, John Peyton, William B. Taylor, Richard Mockbes, James Belton, Alvah Worden, S. H. Fuller, James Head, Robert C. Gordon.

[_Joseph]

Yes, I have seen that list. I have also seen family diaries from the Mormon wars in Missouri and Illinois. Some mention specific times and places and deeds(or mis-deeds) done to and by Mormons in Missouri and Illinois. Hauns Mill being one specific location with a lot of detail on who did what, when and why.
We also have some family writings by Joseph Smith and some other members of the family. Some of it is very critical of leadership as well as some 'fellow leaders' as well as family members for action and inaction during various moves. They are in the possession of familly members who will never consent to them being given to LDSinc. Dislike of that faction still runs strong, especially so with some living near Nauvoo. Unfortunately many of the LDS who are moving in do nothing to dispel the feelings because of their attitude and actions towards some of the long time residents of the area.

Belmont hotel has little knowledge other than what he has been told but is sure he knows everything. Our own Paul Dunn in New England. Maybe his garments ride up in his crotch or something?

I have many active LDS friends and some who are doing research into things LDS from the area where I still have relatives with written records of the Mormon discord. Records written by those who took part both for and against the Mormons. Interesting reading from both sides.

As for the commercials, when will they air one about Ted Bundy? He drove a VW Bug, the car so popular at BYU and Utah Valley, picked up girls and became famous. Would make one whale of a LDSinc commercial showing Mormons cover all parts of the spectrum.

[_Simon Belmont]

As for the commercials, when will they air one about Ted Bundy? He drove a VW Bug, the car so popular at BYU and Utah Valley, picked up girls and became famous. Would make one whale of a LDSinc commercial showing Mormons cover all parts of the spectrum.

I'll bet Ted Bundy used Linux, too!

[_Darth J]

Bernie Madoff is a douche.

I have written no research papers to back up this claim.

I am unlikely to be dissuaded by sympathetic pieces to the contrary.

I am not wrong.

The Bernie Madoff scandal happened within your lifetime. He is not subject to historical interpretation. You were, in essence there!

Yes. Current events are not subject to factual disputes or differing interpretations. That is why everyone agrees on the substance of, and the interpretation of, current events.

[_Joseph]

"Yes. Current events are not subject to factual disputes or differing interpretations. That is why everyone agrees on the substance of, and the interpretation of, current events."

See how Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Ed Schultz, San Francisco Chronicle and The Deseret News all report the same thing and you will see just how wrong that is.