Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial meaning?

[_Markk]

Telestial is simply not a word with meaning outside of the LDS church.

This is demonstrably false. Once someone knows what it means it has meaning, whether they believe it's a legitimate soteriological region or not.

Celestial can be applied to planets, stars...etc In and apart from it use in the Bible, the same can be said about terrestial, these are words with meanings and define the context of the Cor. text.

What does telestial mean? Your spinning a straw man argument. The reality of this is there is absolutly no proof that the word has a actual meaning other than a supposed heavenly abode for evil people.

So in this context and the reality that celestial and terrestial actually have meanings...what does telestial mean apart from Joseph Smith application.

I beleive maybe we should walk through Cor. 15 to understand this a little clearer?....fair?

MG

[_MCB]

What does telestial mean?... heavenly abode for evil people.

So "telestial" is another term for hell?

[_maklelan]

Celestial can be applied to planets, stars...etc In and apart from it use in the Bible, the same can be said about terrestial, these are words with meanings and define the context of the Cor. text.

And telestial has a meaning and defines the context of several restoration texts. Are you arguing that "telestial" cannot be a word because "terrestrial" and "celestial" are more common?

What does telestial mean?

According to my etymology, it means "of the consummation," or "of the end." It refers to the final degree of glory.

Your spinning a straw man argument.

If you honestly think that then you don't know what "straw man argument" means.

The reality of this is there is absolutly no proof that the word has a actual meaning other than a supposed heavenly abode for evil people.

It doesn't have to have another "actual" meaning. The fact that you don't believe it refers to an actual region could not be any more irrelevant. You're trying way to hard to make a point you absolutely cannot make. Give it up.

So in this context and the reality that celestial and terrestial actually have meanings...what does telestial mean apart from Joseph Smith application.

Why does it have to have a second meaning to be a real word? Only words with multiple meanings are real?

I beleive maybe we should walk through Cor. 15 to understand this a little clearer?....fair?

That has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the word "telestial." You're arguing based on your own subjective and rather uninformed assumptions about lexicography. The simple fact is, when a word has an established meaning and enters common usage, it becomes a perfectly legitimate word. This is an argument you cannot possibly win. You're just putting on a show of how dogmatic and irrational you can be.

[_Markk]

Hi Mak,

Poppycock...This is a classic straw-man, I made it very clear that the word telestial is no more a word that hobbit or orc are words. The words celestial and terrestial are undeniable words, that can be used in many different contexts, telestial can not. To imply it has Greek roots is a joke...cfr from non LDS sources that telestial is a word assimilated from the Greek?

You wrote..."According to my etymology..." I agree, by "your" etymology, not a real provable word assimilated from the Greek and Latin.

Why does it have to have a second meaning to be a real word? Only words with multiple meanings are real?

Spin, it isn't a real word because it is not a real place, either are the celestial and terrestrial kingdoms places. that is why I would like to discuss Cor 15 for context which will lend context to my position.


You argument is based solely on that Mormon's and their critics use it as a word, so therefore it is a word. My argument is that it is not a true word of a true place but only "one" made up word, of many, by Joseph Smith that created the origin and matrix of "Mormonism".


If your ready to go through the context of Cor. 15 let me know?

Take Care
MG

[Anonymous]

.

[_Markk]

I have a Greek New Testament. Celestial means heavenly, or of the heavens. Terrestrial means earthly, or of the earth. Telestial was a word coined by Joseph Smith. He likely came up with the idea from several different things, most noteably the magical lore and texts available to him that describe the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Infernal kingdoms. Celestial is above the earth, Terrestrial is the earth itself, and Infernal is below the earth. (See Quinn:Early Mormonism and the Magic World View). Swedenborg likely got his ideas from the magical texts to in my opinion.

Telestial makes absolutely no sense in the context of the original Greek, or even in the modern translations of it. The whole context of 1 Cor:15 is discussing polarities, heaven and earth, corruption and incorruption, spiritual body and natural body, etc (read it). In that context it is discussing the Celestial (of the heavens, heavenly) and Terrestrial (of the earth, earthy). We have a heavenly/celestial/spiritual body and a earthly/terrestrial/mortal body. Telestial is out of context entirely. And yes, it is in the JST. The JST ruins the whole meaning of the original Greek.

The sun moon and stars verse in my opinion is not discussing 3 kingdoms, but merely showing that we are ressurected with differing bodies:

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 aThere are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the bcelestial is one, and the glory of the cterrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the asun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the bstars: for one star cdiffereth from another star in dglory.


Just my 2 cents

No, 2 sense...this is really a easy context to get, it is amazing that LDS members don't see it, but then again I was once in that category?

[Anonymous]

.

[_moksha]

Speaking of Celestial and Telestial, wonder what Joseph Smith's view on Black Holes would have been if he were alive in 2010?

[_Markk]

No, 2 sense...this is really a easy context to get, it is amazing that LDS members don't see it, but then again I was once in that category?

This scripture is one of the things that helped me let go of the whole idea of making it to the Celestial Kingdom and becoming a God. When I saw how this idea of the afterlife does not square with the New Testament, that fear of loosing my Godhood if I apostize (irrational fear, but there nonetheless) melted away. Also, from my pantheistic perspective we are all God anyway. All we need to do is come to this realization and live accordingly. We find God be becoming completely honest with our own hearts and live a life of integrity to it. "Blessed are the pure in heart, they shall see God". When I cleaned out my heart and followed it, I found God, purity, and peace. The difference between this and my Mormon experience is like day and night.

For all you atheists out there, can you honestly say that you follow your heart and not just your head?

The scripture verses that really clicked for me, and nailed the coffin shut on Mormonism were
Phil 2:5-8 and John 1:12,13.

The Phil. verses in context is on humility but have a deep doctrinal message on God becoming man for us. The John vs shattered all LDS indoctrination that all men are literal children of God, and showed me that man has a true choice to receive His free gift,and can become a child of God through adoption.


MG

[_drjackcv]

Fascinating discussion.

Tele = distant. Telephone = distant sounds. Television = distant vision. Telekinesis = moving things that are distant. Telestial kingdom = distant kingdom of glory.

Pretty good for an unschooled New England farm boy. Not such a big deal for a humble man with ears to hear and eyes to see.

In the 21st century of Google, laptop, cell phone, etc., it is amazing that anyone would criticize Joseph Smith for creating a new word, even if he did. by the way, the JST of 1 Cor 15:40 includes telestial.

It always surprises me when people assume that anything one person says that another said previously must be plagiarism. Joseph plagiarized Swedenborg and Shakespeare. Jesus plagiarized the Essenes. Etc.

Of course, the speaker assumes independent thought for himself. If wiser and more experienced, she assumes inspiration for herself, while claiming that Jesus or Joseph or you are just parroting what some other human said, and failing to give credit where credit is due.

Joseph and Jesus gave credit, just as the Holy Ghost does (Jn 16:13-15). Just as we will, if we are interested in being one in the Father and the Son, as they are one in each other.

QUESTION: If Telestial souls and Perdition & Sons are wicked, wicca (sorcerers), violent and vicious (pimps), deliberate victimizers (lie lovers and adulterers), then why does our Father in heaven promote a plan that deposits them finally into joy? (D&C 76:88, 89, 103; 88:32)

But the question I am currently researching is this: what are the characteristics that Celestial and Terrestrial souls have in common? Both are honorable (D&C 29:36; 76:75). Both receive the Son.

Can anyone add to those two? Thanks.