Apostasy for the dead

[_schreech]

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310

This letter is to inform you that as of 8/24/10 - I, Schreech, for and in behalf of Spencer W. Kimball - who is dead, have terminated his membership in the Church Of Jesus-Christ Of Latter-Day Saints.

Please remove the name "Spencer W. Kimball” - who is dead (birth date November 5, 1985) from the records of the LDS Church immediately - as dictated in the General Handbook of instructions.

These instructions to you state that you, as the Bishop, are to be certain that I understand the following for and in behalf of Spencer W Kimball:

1. That withdrawal of a name cancels the effect of baptism.
2. Withdraws the priesthood from a male member; and,
3. Suspends temple sealing and blessings.

I do understand these things, and make this formal, written request that the name Spencer W Kimball - who is dead, be removed from the records of the church immediately.

Therefore, I ask you to promptly complete the form “Request for Administrative Action” for and in behalf of Spencer w Kimball - who is dead, and forward it to the Stake President. You will need to send me a letter telling me that you have done so. Furthermore, I formally demand that the 30 day holding period be waived and that the Stake President will forward this letter and the form to the Office of the First Presidency.

1. I will NOT participate in church court or disciplinary councils for and in behalf of Spencer W Kimball - who is dead, as he has done nothing wrong. I am exercising his freedom of religion and I am requesting the administrative procedure for membership removal for and in behalf of Spencer w kimball - who is dead.
2. I do not wish to be contacted by anyone except by mail confirming that his name has been remove from the records. This includes his former home teachers, visiting teachers and church leadership trying to visit or call by phone.

A copy of this letter has been sent to the LDS Church Membership Records Dept., the Stake President, the Bishop and my Attorney. Should the church refuse to remove Spencer W Kimballs membership, I will seek legal council.

Signed Schreech - for and in behalf of Spencer W Kimball - who is dead...

[_The Dude]

I'm afraid it won't be enough for Edgar to appeal to your well meaning mortal apostasy without it being documented on LDS records somewhere.

I don't know why not. My personal apostasy is not documented on LDS records anywhere.

If it is not documented on LDS records then they think you are a member in good standing (minus the tithing), and so does God.

I see name removal as one of two things. Some people want to make a statement about their complete rejection of the Church, and that's fine. Other people do so for convenience, as you appear to be doing, so they will leave you alone. But you have managed to be apostate for a long time while still being a member on paper.

You are right about my reasons but as I go through the process I'm starting to see the Church's perspective. They think I'm still LDS even though I haven't gone to a meeting in 15 years nor paid tithing. My baptism, priesthood and temple work is still valid. I'm still a member. The "ordinance" for apostasy is either disciplinary action -- which is documented -- or name removal -- which is documented. Minus a documented action, your quiet apostasy is meaningless from the Church's perspective. It would be like taking a shower and claiming you just did a vicarious baptism. The Church (and God) would just LOL at you.

You see, I believe in apostasy by grace, not by works. As long as you reject the Church's truth claims, that is sufficient for apostasy.

Touche. You are clever and witty, Darth J, but the Church believes in works and documentation. Straight is the way and narrow is the gate.

[_Yong Xi]

While I am in favor of "Apostasy for the Dead", I fear this will inspire a newly assigned ambitious and enterprising GA to come up with a new church program, "Tithing for the Dead". Think of the potential. Your dead ancestors can't be saved unless you pay tithing on their behalf.

Personally, I would love to see F&T meeting incorporate proxies offering a "Testimony for the Dead". I might even attend that on occasion. "Brother Lyman Jensen is offering a testimony on behalf of Isaac Newton, who is dead".

[_sock puppet]

While I am in favor of "Apostasy for the Dead", I fear this will inspire a newly assigned ambitious and enterprising GA to come up with a new church program, "Tithing for the Dead". Think of the potential. Your dead ancestors can't be saved unless you pay tithing on their behalf.

Personally, I would love to see F&T meeting incorporate proxies offering a "Testimony for the Dead". I might even attend that on occasion. "Brother Lyman Jensen is offering a testimony on behalf of Isaac Newton, who is dead".

Ah, the faith of our fathers. You know, what a way to be probate when you die. You thought a living trust was clever, just give the LDS Church everything you've got, so you'll have prepaid your tithing going into the spirit world.

[_Joseph]

Since I was baptized for Jim Bowie(Yes, THAT Jim Bowie of knife fame who died at the Alamo), do I have first claim if I think he wants this?

One other question. I found out that one of the last I ever did was someone who had gone through the whole bit SIX times before. Do we have to write on seven different letters on their behalf due to LDS busywork?

[_twinkie]

You guys are cracking me up.

[_Inconceivable]

I am willing to make that sacrifice on behalf of our departed brothers and sisters on the other side of the veil, and I invite other apostates to do likewise. By vicariously apostatizing on behalf of a person who did not have the chance to do so in this life, we can make the fundamental doctrine of free agency a meaningful part of God's plan.

I got dibs on Simon Belmont (who is not dead, yet). I kinda made him a commitment the other day.

I have faith that he'll be eternally greatful and thank me later. We all know it's for his own damn good.

[_Inconceivable]

by the way,

How did the church Un-endow the Holacaust victims (twice)?

There must be an official ordinance.

[_Inconceivable]

What is the ordinance to un-endow?

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSn2BLDwfQ

[_Darth J]

While I am in favor of "Apostasy for the Dead", I fear this will inspire a newly assigned ambitious and enterprising GA to come up with a new church program, "Tithing for the Dead". Think of the potential. Your dead ancestors can't be saved unless you pay tithing on their behalf.

Someone already thought of something along those lines.