Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Res Ipsa]

RI,

I got seven hits using 1976 and Incidents (C). Russell M. Nelson's flight information wasn't there. What's my takeaway supposed to be?

- Doc

Dunno. Let me try to replicate it.

[Res Ipsa]

Doc, I get no hits and this message:

No data found for values and criteria used:
ACCIDENT STATE CODE equal "UT"
EVENT TYPE CODE equal "C"

I hate to put you to the trouble, but would you mind posting your query screen and the list of seven hits?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I just tried it again, but this time it only allowed me to select for all incidents and I got 54 hits using this date parameter: 1976-01-01 to 1976-12-31

- Doc

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ref screenshots. Unfortunately I can't. I'm on Amtrak and on my phone - I'm not sure how to do screenshots. When I get home and I'm on my PC I can give it a shot.

- Doc

[Dr Moore]

Enter the second date as 1977-12-31 as shown on the page header and not 1977-01-01 as shown on the screenshot.
I counted 208 entries between 1973 and 1977.

Hey DrW,

It seems that for dates pre-1978, the database returns only some of the reported incidents. I believe it's the more serious ones. It definitely does not contain all incidents. It's a bummer. However, I believe your assessment that seriousness of Nelson's story would most likely warrant an accident report. So the non-existence of such a record in the database is still, on its own, highly suspicious and problematic. It suggests to me that at a very minimum, Nelson exaggerated the engine explosion and subsequent oil fire, as well as landing in a field which would, in November, very likely have caused damage to the landing gears, no?

Anyway, the database does appear to include all accidents , including those between 1973 and 1978.

For instance, it does return the accident I found earlier in this thread on Nov. 12, 1976 in Brigham City, in which a pilot landed in a field and the plane flipped. Pasted those details below.

Occurrence Date 1976-11-12 Aircraft Registration 1840F
Aircraft Make CESSNA Aircraft Group 210
Aircraft Model 210F Aircraft Technical Certificate 3A21
Airworthiness Class STANDARD Airframe Hours
Aircraft Damage SUBSTANTIAL Accident Type NOSE UP OR OVER
Total Killed 0 Total Injured 1
Event Type GENERAL AVIATION ACCIDENT Flight Phase FINAL APPROACH
General Cause Category PILOT INDUCED Operational Supporting Factor RECKLESS
Owner Operator Name WIGGINS AND CO Air Carrier
Engine Make Engine Model
Engine Group Engine Technical Certificate
Accident City BRIGHAM CITY Accident State Code UT
Document Last Modified 2012-08-08
Text HIT IRRIGATION DITCH.

[Res Ipsa]

Enter the second date as 1977-12-31 as shown on the page header and not 1977-01-01 as shown on the screenshot.
I counted 208 entries between 1973 and 1977.

Hey DrW,

It seems that for dates pre-1978, the database returns only some of the reported incidents. I believe it's the more serious ones. It definitely does not contain all incidents. It's a bummer. However, I believe your assessment that seriousness of Nelson's story would most likely warrant an accident report. So the non-existence of such a record in the database is still, on its own, highly suspicious and problematic. It suggests to me that at a very minimum, Nelson exaggerated the engine explosion and subsequent oil fire, as well as landing in a field which would, in November, very likely have caused damage to the landing gears, no?

Anyway, the database does appear to include all accidents , including those between 1973 and 1978.

For instance, it does return the accident I found earlier in this thread on Nov. 12, 1976 in Brigham City, in which a pilot landed in a field and the plane flipped. Pasted those details below.

Occurrence Date 1976-11-12 Aircraft Registration 1840F
Aircraft Make CESSNA Aircraft Group 210
Aircraft Model 210F Aircraft Technical Certificate 3A21
Airworthiness Class STANDARD Airframe Hours
Aircraft Damage SUBSTANTIAL Accident Type NOSE UP OR OVER
Total Killed 0 Total Injured 1
Event Type GENERAL AVIATION ACCIDENT Flight Phase FINAL APPROACH
General Cause Category PILOT INDUCED Operational Supporting Factor RECKLESS
Owner Operator Name WIGGINS AND CO Air Carrier
Engine Make Engine Model
Engine Group Engine Technical Certificate
Accident City BRIGHAM CITY Accident State Code UT
Document Last Modified 2012-08-08
Text HIT IRRIGATION DITCH.

Dr. Moore,

Were you able to locate any incidents from 1973 through 1977 in Utah? If so, would you mind posting a screen shot of the list of hits.

[Res Ipsa]

I just tried it again, but this time it only allowed me to select for all incidents and I got 54 hits using this date parameter: 1976-01-01 to 1976-12-31

- Doc

Weird. Would you mind posting a link to the search page? Mine doesn't have a parameter for all incidents.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

On the 54 returns I got, including the one Dr. Moore posted, there are all sorts of accidents. Some minor. Some major. I have a hard time believing an engine blowout, a nosedive, and an emergency landing wouldn't have been reported and not show up in this database if these other reports are any sort of indicator. But, hey. You never know. Maybe there was a cover up, noncompliance, and a data entry problem. Anything is possible, just ask Russell M. Nelson.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

For comparison, Doc, here is the query I ran:



And here is the return I got:

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

RI,

It's the link that's been provided. When you click on Event Type you just use the All setting, which includes incidents. Or you can check all the options, too.

Edit: On my phone you can click little circles next to the options which allows me to click one, multiple, or all options. I'm getting the same error as RI when I only click the commercial options now. I don't know what's up with that.

- Doc