Defenders: Why is "Joseph Smith" being a martyr so important

[_sock puppet]

I don't get it. "Martyr" is a word, a label. Why is it so important to Mormons to try to hoist Joseph Smith to the level of Joan of Arc?

Whether or not a 'martyr', Joseph Smith did what he did (historical facts) and did not do what he did not (again, historical facts). So why is it so important to you that he be labeled a 'martyr', particularly when the historical facts are extremely thin for making such a claim?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

I don't get it. "Martyr" is a word, a label. Why is it so important to Mormons to try to hoist Joseph Smith to the level of Joan of Arc?

Whether or not a 'martyr', Joseph Smith did what he did (historical facts) and did not do what he did not (again, historical facts). So why is it so important to you that he be labeled a 'martyr', particularly when the historical facts are extremely thin for making such a claim?

Martyrs seem to unite people for a common belief. I am sure that terriorists who have died for the cause are looked upon as heroes and unite others with same beliefs.

[_zeezrom]

Because Sock Puppet, then you can hoist Joseph Smith up nearer to Jesus himself. My dad showed me a power point a while back that compared Joseph Smith to Jesus Christ in many ways. One of those of course was the martyrdom.

Often times, Mormons will equate powerful emotion (such as sadness) with testimony. A boy in my ward recently decided to go on a mission because he cried so much during Pioneer Trek. They played violins at the re-enactment of the Sweatwater for crying out loud! I can't believe it. But I digress. The Pioneer Trek is a huge testimonkey builder for the youth because of all the crying about folks dying on the plains. Same thing with Joseph Smith the Prophet. He didn't die of cancer or diabetes. He died a really sad way that might make a tear come to the eye if you think about it long enough. That is testimony building, man!

[_Simon Belmont]

I don't get it. "Martyr" is a word, a label. Why is it so important to Mormons to try to hoist Joseph Smith to the level of Joan of Arc?

Whether or not a 'martyr', Joseph Smith did what he did (historical facts) and did not do what he did not (again, historical facts). So why is it so important to you that he be labeled a 'martyr', particularly when the historical facts are extremely thin for making such a claim?

There is a very simple answer for this: Joseph Smith believed he would be a martyr, and the evidence points to him being correct.

[_Paul Osborne]

There is a very simple answer for this: Joseph Smith believed he would be a martyr, and the evidence points to him being correct.

And did Joseph Smith also believe that the Explanation he gave to the saints in Kirtland regarding Facsimilie No. 3 having a king's name was also correct?

Prove it, Simon. Show me Joseph Smith knew what he was talking about rather than spouting his stupid mouth off in effort to deceive anyone and everyone. Your prophet is a Goddamn liar -- a false prophet and an Egyptoligcal idiot. I accuse him of lying for saying there is a king's name in Facsimile No. 3. Liar Joseph! Hang him high! Tar and feather him!

Sure, he knew he was going to be killed. After all he did he deserved it! That SOB deserved what he got. He was a liar! Prove me wrong, Simon. But you can't.

Come on Simon, show me your prophet knew about the writing of Facsimile No. 3. Joseph Smith was a Goddamn liar! That's what Mormons do, lie!

Paul O

[_MCB]

I now give you your new secret name: One-Note Paul

[Guest]

I don't get it. "Martyr" is a word, a label. Why is it so important to Mormons to try to hoist Joseph Smith to the level of Joan of Arc?

Whether or not a 'martyr', Joseph Smith did what he did (historical facts) and did not do what he did not (again, historical facts). So why is it so important to you that he be labeled a 'martyr', particularly when the historical facts are extremely thin for making such a claim?

There is a very simple answer for this: Joseph Smith believed he would be a martyr, and the evidence points to him being correct.

No, his words were that he would be murdered in cold blood--not be a martyr.

I am going like a lamb to the slaughter, but I am calm as a summer's morning. I have a conscience void of offense toward God and toward all men. If they take my life I shall die an innocent man, and my blood shall cry from the ground for vengeance, and it shall be said of me "He was murdered in cold blood!"

[_Paul Osborne]

I'm glad Joseph Smith was put to death. That SOB deserved it.

How dare Joseph Smith tell the people that there is a king's name written in Facsimile No. 3! That liar. Call forth mobs and hang him!

That liar. Mormons are liars! All Mormons are liars!

ALL OF THEM! It's a wicked cult for liars!

Paul O

[_Baker]

If Joseph Smith were a fraud, he could have relinquished his roles as prophet, general and king of Nauvoo, subjected himself to public embarassment and wither away into obscurity. The fact that he maintained his profession of God-ordained prophet, etc. until murdered at the hands of an angry mob bolsters his claims.

[_Simon Belmont]

No, his words were that he would be murdered in cold blood--not be a martyr.

In 1838, Joseph and Hyrum were sentenced to death. Joseph later said about the event:

As far as I was concerned, I felt perfectly calm, and resigned to the will of my heavenly Father.... And notwithstanding that every avenue of escape seemed to be entirely closed, and death stared me in the face, and that my destruction was determined upon, as far as man was concerned; yet, from my first entrance into the camp, I felt an assurance, that I with my brethren and our families should be delivered. Yes, that still small voice, which has so often whispered consolation to my soul, in the depth of sorrow and distress, bade me be of good cheer, and promised deliverance.

In 1843, Wilford Woodruff recounted Joseph Smith saying:

I understand my mishion [sic] & business. God Almighty is my shield.... I shall not be sacrafised [sic] untill [sic] my time comes. Then I shall be offered freely.

To the Nauvoo Legion in 1844:

I do not regard my own life. I am ready to be offered a sacrifice for this people; for what can our enemies do? Only kill the body, and their power is then at an end. Stand firm, my friends; never flinch. Do not seek to save your lives, for he that is afraid to die for the truth, will lose eternal life.... God has tried you. You are a good people; therefore I love you with all my heart. Greater love hath no man than that he should lay down his life for his friends. You have stood by me in the hour of trouble, and I am willing to sacrifice my life for your preservation.

Speaking to a guard from Carthage in 1844:

I am going to give myself for the people, to save them

William Clayton, describing Joseph Smith on his last visit with his family:

He appeared to feel solemn & though[t]ful, and from expressions made to several individuals, he expects nothing but to be massacred. This he expressed before he returned from over the river but their appearing no alternative but he must either give himself up or the City be massacred by a lawless mob under the sanction of the Governor.

All things point to Joseph being a martyr.