What the heck is "spirituality"?

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_zeezrom
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _zeezrom »

TAO wrote:No, I understand what you mean... but this is part of the test of life I think... to learn to trust the things that are true. =).

learn to trust the words of men, you mean?

Or, truth is not absolute? Do you believe that? Do you believe truth is relative to a POV, time, and space?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_TAO
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _TAO »

zeezrom wrote:
TAO wrote:No, I understand what you mean... but this is part of the test of life I think... to learn to trust the things that are true. =).

learn to trust the words of men, you mean?


Na, I don't trust the words of men without confirming them with the words of the spirit first.

Or, truth is not absolute? Do you believe that? Do you believe truth is relative to a POV, time, and space?


Truth is absolute. What you do to obtain and live the truth is different based on a POV, time, and space.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _Fence Sitter »

TAO wrote:Truth is absolute. What you do to obtain and live the truth is different based on a POV, time, and space.


Is absolute truth knowable? If so give me an example of what you think a knowable absolute truth is and then how you could not learn anything more about that truth.

Oh and Hi TAO. :)
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_TAO
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _TAO »

Fence Sitter wrote:
TAO wrote:Truth is absolute. What you do to obtain and live the truth is different based on a POV, time, and space.
Is absolute truth knowable? If so give me an example of what you think a knowable absolute truth is and then how you could not learn anything more about that truth.


Hmmm... well this is an absoulte truth, although I'm sure many will disagree:

"Life without purpose is worthless living".

Oh and Hi TAO. :)


Howdy!
_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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_Fence Sitter
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _Fence Sitter »

TAO wrote: Life without purpose is worthless living.




TAO,

I have my doubts about the ability of man to know absolute truth. ( I am not even sure what it is.) Your statement above is a good example. I think it is clear in your mind (or maybe not) what it means to you, but I also think you would agree that your understanding of it may change in the future, even if the change is to understand it better. In that sense I do not believe you can claim to know it as absolute truth as you yourself do not fully understand it. We are a work in progress TAO, what we think we know now will not be the same as what we thing we know at a later time.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_TAO
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _TAO »

Fence Sitter wrote:TAO,

I have my doubts about the ability of man to know absolute truth. ( I am not even sure what it is.) Your statement above is a good example.


This is understandable, absolute truths are hard to come by, and oftentimes, when you think you have them, it turns out they are a sub-part of an even MORE absolute truth =D.

I think it is clear in your mind (or maybe not) what it means to you, but I also think you would agree that your understanding of it may change in the future, even if the change is to understand it better.


Oh, undoubtedly, my sense of understanding will come to better understand it in the future, but it is still an absolute truth. You can still learn things about absolute truths; over time, you start applying that absolute truth in more ways throughout your life. For some reason, you have a subconscious hesitation to apply any 'absolute truths' immediately... it takes time. So though it is an absolute truth, I don't live it absolutely, although I am trying.

In that sense I do not believe you can claim to know it as absolute truth as you yourself do not fully understand it.


This could be the case - but even the sub-cases of 'absolute truths' are near close to absolute... so close in fact, that they hardly make a difference, from my experiences (although I could be wrong).

For example... I could have said... a life without purpose is pointless... yet there is point to living without purpose. Instead I used worthless, because it is of no value to you to live a life without purpose, value being something permanent. In a life without purpose, all decays to dust, making life worthless.

In other cases, I believe, we have the absolute truths, we just have a hard time living them, and in that case, it's really that we don't trust them fully, but they are still absolutes.

We are a work in progress TAO, what we think we know now will not be the same as what we thing we know at a later time.


Very true, very true, but so do we also not know that what we see actually exists; we live in a world based on trust, simply because living a life taking no risks would be worthless. We take the risk that all of our sense could be deceiving us, so that our life has worth. I take absolutes as existing, because without them, life would be chaotic, and for me, worthless. I have an embedded sense of purpose, so to say.
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _Fence Sitter »

TAO,

I think you are confusing absolute belief (faith) with absolute truth. The way you use absolute truth makes no sense to me, but if I substitute belief for truth, in your posts, I can understand better what you are saying.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_TAO
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Re: What the heck is "spirituality"?

Post by _TAO »

Fence Sitter wrote:TAO,

I think you are confusing absolute belief (faith) with absolute truth. The way you use absolute truth makes no sense to me, but if I substitute belief for truth, in your posts, I can understand better what you are saying.


Hehe, for me, what is absolute truth and what is absolute belief from my perspective are the same thing. Similarly to how I see ideals... I don't focus on myself as the way I am, I focus myself upon the way I should become.
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